The Sugar Daddy Podcast
Ready to normalize talking about money? Then welcome to The Sugar Daddy Podcast, where talking about money isn't taboo, and you can leave your past money mistakes at the door! Every episode will get you one step closer to your financial goals. Whether that is learning how to invest, budget, save, retire early or simply make better money choices, Jess & Brandon have got you covered in a way that's easy to understand. Tune in as they demystify the realm of dollars, so it all makes cents, while giving you a glimpse into their relationship with money and each other.
The Norwoods are a married, millennial couple, here to help you build wealth, so you can live the life you've always dreamed of. Brandon is an award winning licensed financial planner, and owner of Oak City Financial, with over a decade of experience and millions of dollars managed for his clients all over the United States.
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The Sugar Daddy Podcast
59: Wills & Trusts: Essential Estate Planning Tips from Attorney, Nicola Rochester Robinson
Wills, Trusts, Guardianship, Probate- oh my!
Ever wondered how a simple piece of paper can safeguard your legacy and keep your family united? Join Jessica and Brandon as they sit down with Nicola Rochester Robinson, co-founder of the SR Law Group, to uncover the essential elements of estate planning that every family should know. Nicola shares her journey to becoming an expert in elder law and estate planning, offering invaluable advice on drafting wills, trusts, and end-of-life documents. Hear firsthand accounts of family disputes and lost legacies due to the absence of clear legal documentation. If you want to avoid the emotional and financial turmoil that can arise when inheritance plans are not in place, this episode promises to enlighten you on how to protect your assets and ensure your wishes are honored. Don't miss out on these life-changing insights that could make all the difference for your family's legacy.
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I deal with tons of clients and a lot of times I've asked people about their children, because it's part of our conversation, and they're like oh yeah, they're fine, they get along beautifully. And I'm just like OK, did they share their toys when you left the room? Oh no, they fought like cats and dogs. I said you're going to leave the room, how are they going to act then? And that's sometimes the first time parents are like oh yeah, my adult kids, like if we're really honest.
Speaker 3:Hey babe, what are we talking about today?
Speaker 2:Today we are going to have a really important conversation. I know we've talked about it on past episodes. We've talked about wills and trusts and probate and how to prepare for the inevitable right. A little bit of an uncomfortable conversation, but it's one that we need to have and we want to help inform our audience about why having a will and a trust and guardianship and conservatorship for our families, for our children, and why that's so important, and also why and how that helps preserve wealth within our communities, because what we hear a lot is that, especially within the black community, when we don't have proper documentation in place, that is how we lose our wealth, that is how we lose our assets. And so we're going to have a really incredible conversation today with an attorney, because we are not attorneys, but Nicola Rochester Robinson is, and so we are so excited to welcome her to the Sugar Daddy podcast today. Nicola, thank you for being with us today.
Speaker 1:My absolute pleasure.
Speaker 2:We are so thrilled to have this conversation. So you have been in this field for quite some time. We're going to start off with your bio so that our audience can learn a little bit about you, but I don't want to waste any time. We have an important conversation to have today. We want to get into all of the details, pick your brain, use your expertise and your knowledge to help inform our audience. So let's get into this bio and kick it off audience. So let's get into this bio and kick it off.
Speaker 2:Nicola Rochester Robinson is the co-founder of the SR Law Group, an elder law and estate planning law firm in Douglasville, georgia. Prior to starting the SR Law Group, she began her legal career as a trial attorney at Kozen O'Connor, where she worked most notably on litigation surrounding the events of September 11, notably, on litigation surrounding the events of September 11, 2011. In 2009, she began helping friends with estate planning. A few years later, several members of her own family passed away and she saw firsthand the importance of having properly drafted wills, trusts and other end-of-life decision-making documents. It was through this work that she found her true passion for helping families understand the importance of estate planning and elder law. Nicola, a proud graduate of Emory University and Penn State Law. In her spare time she enjoys hanging out with family and volunteering with her beloved sorority, alpha Kappa. Alpha Sorority Incorporated. Thank you, nicola.
Speaker 1:My pleasure.
Speaker 3:I'm so excited to be here. Did you mean of 2001? September 11, 2001?
Speaker 2:Maybe. Yeah, is that Feels right? Okay, yep, okay, we're just going to skip right over that.
Speaker 3:It's okay, it happens 2001.
Speaker 2:September 11, 2001. Well, you know, when I said it I was like 2011,. That feels dated. I'm going to go have a sip of this coffee and we're going to get right back into it. Nicola, we start all of our conversations with understanding people's first money memory and then you know seeing how that has impacted what they do now, their thoughts around money, feelings around money, how you interact with money, obviously wills, trust, estate planning. All of that comes down ultimately to assets, to finances, to money. So what is your first money memory?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a good one. Um, okay, the one that immediately came to mind when you asked the question was when I was a Girl Scout. So we're going to take this back to like third or fourth grade and I was a cookie seller. And this is back in a day when you could actually go door to door, knock on people's door, sell cookies, you know, when we thought it was safe. And I remember there was a time when I had collected all my money. I knocked on everybody's door, everybody placed their order and gave me the money, and then I got home and I had lost it.
Speaker 1:I dropped the envelope with all of the Girl Scout money and I remember just like this complete feeling of dread, because my mom was also the Girl Scout cookie, was our Girl Scout troop leader. So I'm like I can't go home, I can't tell my mama. I remember her like being on the phone with other parents about the money being due, like it was just always high stress in our household around cookie season. So I remember like just sitting in the yard crying, just oh, my god, I cannot believe I lost this money, and I was like, okay, like be smart about this, like retrace your steps. And it was false. It was leaves everywhere too, which is odd, but I remember looking down and there it was, the envelope with the money and so being able to find it like crisis averted. That was the first thought, like the minute you asked about money memory that it.
Speaker 2:Do you have any remembrance of how much money was in that envelope?
Speaker 1:no idea, but I just remember the feeling that I had about having lost it, like, oh my god, like the panic, just sheer terror and panic you knew the importance of actually keeping the money to place these orders, so oh my gosh I just got stressed for you I was a cub scout so we didn't do.
Speaker 3:We weren't fortunate enough to have the cookies because we had popcorn, which really nobody wanted, so it really wasn't a big thing for the cub scouts we've had.
Speaker 2:We had a previous oh go ahead.
Speaker 1:I was top cookie seller so I was always rolling in the dough, so I'm sure it had to be in like a decent amount of money yeah, that's high stress at such a young age, but also kind of helps you understand the importance of like.
Speaker 2:You don't want to lose this Like. You need to hold on to it yes. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:Well, we are not here to talk about Girl Scout cookies. We are here to talk about something much more important, which is proper estate planning and making sure that proper documentation is in place. And I read that when your grandmother passed away who was your favorite person that there was land and correct me if any of these details are wrong, but there was land left to your father and siblings but it sounds like documentation was not the way it should have been and so it caused a lot of tension. Can you talk to us about your experience with you know what you saw during that time and how it impacted you?
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely so. My grandmother passed like 2010, I think, and her children. She had five children. My father was the oldest of her children, but he was not her biological child.
Speaker 1:He was her stepchild, but she was the only parent he really knew in terms of his mother. When his biological father and his stepmother divorced, he stayed with his stepmom, so, again, that was who raised him. And then he had four siblings as well, who were his half siblings because they also shared the same father. When my grandmother passed and we sat down after the funeral and to hear my aunt say to my father well, you're not her child, you don't get anything Like, I will never remember. Forget how that felt. This was the only grandmother I'd ever known, so if my father's not her, child.
Speaker 3:Wait, are you saying.
Speaker 1:I'm not her grandchild, and that's really what it came down to. They felt like, well, you weren't biologically her child, there's nothing in place to you know, say anything otherwise, so you're not getting anything. My grandmother had inherited land from her parents. Um, and it was kind of always just conversation in the family like who would this land would be divided between the five of them? Um, people even knew what parts of the land they would get. Like this was open conversation for years. One of my uncles he had already even built his house on his. He was like, well, just, I'll take my, my fifth right now, build a house for me and my family. And another uncle had started a house on his side.
Speaker 1:So it really was just my father and his two sisters who were like, okay, well, we need to divide up our portion. And they were just very adamant, like no, he's, you're not entitled to any of this land. And so the the hurt that came out of that um, and I I hate to tell you this, but the reality is this what, 12 years later, that that that has never been repaired in our family. My grandmother was really the matriarch and the glue that bind us together and after that conversation. Our family has never been the same. Just the hurt that my dad experienced from that. And then to see those same siblings struggling with that land, not really doing anything with the land, and watching what my grandmother built deteriorate Um and. And watching what my grandmother built deteriorate, um, because there was no plan in place, quite honestly, because there was no clear directions as to who was going to get what. So, yeah, that's kind of what was the springing board for my whole career.
Speaker 2:That is heartbreaking.
Speaker 3:Heartbreaking and unfortunately not uncommon, I mean yeah exactly when you start to see people's true colors, when money starts to get involved.
Speaker 2:Well, that was going to be my question is up until that point, would you say that all the siblings had a good relationship, was it? You know happy and holidays, and you are my family. And then, once the land came into question, then it was wait a minute, pump the brakes, or what was the dynamic before that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. When my grandma was alive, we all convened at her house. She was, you know, the linchpin. All the five siblings plus their children, all would get together. Never any conversation about. These aren't my aunts, or, you know, these people aren't biologically related. I even remember it is such a clear memory at the funeral there were some strangers that sat behind me but I could hear their conversation and I remember them. When my dad got up to say the eulogy and they were like, well, you know, that's her oldest. And the other woman was like, yeah, he moved to, yeah, he moved away, but she loved her.
Speaker 2:My dad's name's Anthony.
Speaker 1:They're like, oh, she loved her some Tony. She talked about Tony all the time. So I could hear these strangers talking so affectionately at my grandmother's funeral about how my grandmother felt about my father, only for his siblings to then turn and say this and so, yeah, we were great tight knit until that day.
Speaker 2:And you know, that's what people I think that's the part that people need to remember right Is that everything can be fine and dandy when it's fine and dandy, but then, when it comes to what did this person actually want, what were their wishes, and how do we actually execute on those wishes If there's nothing in place? Unfortunately, that's when people's I hate to say it true colors sometimes show up, you know, and I think most of us have the mindset of well, it's fine, everything's fine, we get along great. My sibling would never do this to me, my so-and-so would never do this to me, but if it's not in writing, it all falls apart, right?
Speaker 3:I mean unfortunately. I've experienced, you know, similar things in my family, when my grandfather passed away and my grandmother was still alive. You know, it wasn't as if both my grandparents were gone. My grandfather passed away and we had you know, I had relatives asking you know, what am I going to get now? And I'm like, our grandmother is so alive.
Speaker 2:Like first off.
Speaker 3:First off and then, like also she was in the early stages of Alzheimer's, I was like she gets everything, she's so alive and she's going to need it to pay for the care.
Speaker 3:And even after she passed, eventually, you know, there were some people asking you know, what am I going to get? And it's like there's nothing left. I'm like she was in full assisted care living and my mom is. The was the youngest of her three siblings and fortunately, her two other siblings have passed since then. But her being the youngest, she was actually the one that took care of everything because of just she was a more responsible one and stuff of that nature. So I've seen it firsthand where I'm like you know, you, like you said, you need to have whatever you want done, it needs to be in writing, legalized, and everything that nature. Because, as you said, you know, you can't just simply go off the word of oh, we're on good terms, we'll take care of everything, it'll be fine. That's not what happens when the incomes, you know, I mean I can tell you.
Speaker 1:I mean, I deal with tons of clients and a lot of times I've asked people about their children because it's part of our conversation and they're like, oh yeah, they're fine, they get along beautifully and I'm just like okay, did they share their toys when you left the room? Oh no, they fought like cats and dogs. I said you're going to leave the room? How are they going to act then? And that's sometimes the first time parents are like, ooh, yeah, my adult kids. Ooh.
Speaker 2:Like, if we're really honest, I love that If they were not helpful as children, it's also very realistic, right, like I mean, our parents thankfully have everything in writing and in place and you know, if they didn't.
Speaker 3:Because I made them.
Speaker 2:Well, that too. But if they didn't, you know me and my brother, for example everything gets split down the middle, right, and like there would be no question about that. But again, you don't want to leave it up to chance, right, Because people's relationships change and dynamics change. And you know, we both know that when that time comes for our parents, we will be taking care of the estate. Right, we are the paperwork doers, we are the ones who are, you know, in proximity, closest.
Speaker 3:I'm also a financial advisor, right?
Speaker 2:I mean, there's so many elements, so we know that we would be taking care of a lot of that, if not the most of it, and we would still. Everything would still be split, even if it wasn't in writing.
Speaker 3:I made my mom, I was like my mom?
Speaker 1:Oh, I challenged that. Oh, you just said that. Mom, I was like my mom, I challenged that. Oh, you just said that if there yeah, you said that, even if it wasn't in writing, it would be 50 50 between me and my brother. Well, what I see a lot of times is there might be some unresolved issues that you don't even know your brother has, and so then brother says, well, mom loved me more or loved you more, and it's not fair. And so then he challenges that 50-50. Yeah.
Speaker 1:We always mess with mom. So we have these assumptions that it's just like oh, because that's the right thing that makes sense. It should be down the middle. Our brother feels like he should be entitled to the whole thing. Yeah, I know that seems unfathomable to you, but he may feel very strongly that it should be 100% to him. We always do, and that's the problem. Most people just rely on the assumption that, oh, even if it's not written down, it'll be fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know what they say about assumptions. Yeah, absolutely Exactly. You're totally right. And even I could you know if I was playing devil's advocate on both sides. I could easily then be like you know what I'm doing all this paperwork, I'm doing everything to settle the estate. I'm the one who did x, y and z. I deserve 70, right, like I could totally flip the script too. And so, again, let's not leave it up to chance, right?
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Have you been listening to our podcast and wondering how am I really doing with my money? Am I doing the right things with my investments? Am I on track to reach my financial goals? What could I be doing better? If you answered yes to any of these questions, then it's time for you to reach out to Brandon to schedule your free yes, I said free 30-minute introduction conversation to see how his services could help make you the more confident moneymaker we know you could be. What are you waiting for? It's literally free and at the very least, you'll walk away feeling more empowered and confident about your financial future. Link is in our show notes. Go schedule your call today. I think this is a perfect segue into because there's so many elements in estate planning, so we're going to focus on a couple today. But can you just give us an overview of what is estate planning and why is it important?
Speaker 1:Sure. So when we hear the word estate, even that word has just certain belief systems around it, like we start thinking of the Vanderbilts or, you know, the Rockefellers or these groups of people who we've known traditionally used to have a whole bunch of money. But, honestly, your estate is everything you have. So, whether that's your car, whether that's your bank accounts, even if it's just a few dollars in there, the house that you own, you don't have to have large estates. It's everything you own that is titled in your name, that currently belongs to you. That is what makes up your estate. So even think life insurance policies, retirement accounts, all of those. Those are all the things that we will need to have a plan for if something were to happen to you. That's really what estate planning is putting that plan in place. So we have a clear understanding of not only what's going to happen to those things, but who's in charge, who's going to be the one to distribute those things to whoever it is that you have named as the beneficiary of those things.
Speaker 1:I like to think of estate planning as really twofold. We talk about the stuff, and that's where people start talking about wills and we start talking about trust, but then there's a larger, often ignored portion of estate planning where we have to talk about planning for you, your person. There is a whole chapter of life called sickness. We might not get to your stuff for a number of years. We got to talk about dementia. We got to talk about if you're going to go into a nursing home or some type of facility, who is going to be in charge at that point? Where's the funds going to come from for that? So we do advanced healthcare directives, we do power of attorneys, we do documents that can facilitate the sickness portion of life. So that's the state planning in a nutshell.
Speaker 1:I love that. Now I think the second part of your question was why is it important? Well, that's, that's a that could be the whole show really. So I give, I guess, the briefest answer to that is without. You know, I guess biblically they say without a plan that people will perish. Exactly why, if we don't have a plan in place, what I have seen and what in my experience is the fighting and the loss of assets because there is no plan. So it's important to do estate planning so that things can transfer seamlessly from one person or one generation to the next one.
Speaker 3:I was going to say I think it's really interesting to hear you say the second part of estate planning as far as, like you know, your health directive and stuff of that nature, Because I think that's a big part that people don't think about, especially, you know, individuals who don't have children, because normally most people seem like oh my kids will take care of me and stuff of that nature.
Speaker 3:But we have a generation of people, that there's a lot more people that are opting to not have children, that there's a lot more people that are opting to not have children. So it's even more important that they have those things in place so that if that day does come and they do need that help, it's already in writing what's going to occur, cause I, like I said, I experienced there was nothing in place, written wise, when my grandpa, my grandfather, passed away and my grandmother had Alzheimer's. But thankfully my mom stepped up and then luckily there was enough money because we didn't know beforehand, but luckily it was enough money where you could go into a really nice facility not, you know, a medic, a Medicaid, a Medicaid facility. But it is like you said, it's very important to have those things written out and plan wise prior to even needing to use them.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. A lot of times people go ahead.
Speaker 2:Well, I was going to say a lot of times what Brandon says is sometimes if somebody dies, it's actually easier to manage that than when somebody has become disabled or permanently ill or is fighting, you know, and progressing through dementia and Alzheimer's, because then you're left with the kind of the shell of the person, if you will. I know that sounds terrible, but that's the reality and then you're also strapped with the burden of their care and the cost of that care, and so sometimes that is more detrimental on a family, especially when there isn't a plan in place, as compared to death and now they're gone.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely. We've seen families really fall apart under just caregiving, the stress of caregiving, the expense of caregiving. I don't think people again, we don't think about this stuff, so we haven't looked into it. We don't know what it costs to put somebody in a nursing home. Unfortunately it's part of my practice and so here in Georgia the average nursing home is $7,500 to $10,000 a month.
Speaker 1:Most Americans did not save enough to be able to cover that cost. And what they did save, their intention was to pass that to the next generation. They didn't bookmark that money to say, oh, that's going to be for my nursing home care. And so there's a whole thought process like, well, I really worked really hard to give my kids a leg up, or to give my grandkids you know something, to be able to move the needle for them. Never in my wildest dreams that I think, oh wait, I'm gonna have to deplete all of that.
Speaker 1:Just because we're living longer I might have to go into this type of facility. And so that's where estate planning can also really be helpful, because there are things and tools that we can do under estate planning. That gives you the ability to still pass assets to family members, but look at government assistance like Medicaid as another option for paying for a nursing home or long term care facility. So it gives you kind of the best of both. So you can still keep some assets, pass them as you intended, but still be able to maybe get some benefits from the government to pay for that care.
Speaker 3:And I can. Like I said, unfortunately, I've seen too many times of nursing home in my family. For most people, if you saw what a Medicaid facility looks like, you don't want that option.
Speaker 1:If you don't have to, well see, I challenge you on that I would challenge you on that, because most facilities.
Speaker 1:As I was going to say, it might be just region specific, but most facilities, even some of the nicer ones, they have to have medicaid beds available. Um, that's how they get their funding, and so you may not know that a very nice facility has a few beds that are earmarked for somebody that is getting medicaid, and by law they're not supposed to treat those people any differently. So you can, and some times part of planning is being real strategic and so we might private pay for a few months, knowing that money's going to run out and we might need to kick in that Medicaid.
Speaker 1:But we already here.
Speaker 2:So working with a professional who knows those things and knows how to navigate that system, that is, I mean, priceless, you know. So I think that's a great call out. I want to talk about what you said at the very beginning. When it comes to the stuff right, the actual what do you own? Your home and your car and land and things like that what happens when there's nothing in place and you pass away? Because we hear the term probate all the time and I don't know if that is what happens here, but can you tell us what happens to your assets when you pass away and you don't have proper estate planning documentation in place?
Speaker 1:Okay, so full disclosure. My practice is in Georgia so I can speak only under Georgia law. You guys, I know, are in North Carolina, but very general, when you pass away and there's no plan in place or you don't have a trust in place, because even if you do have a will, we're going to have to go through probate court. So probate court is, I just tell people, it's the process of getting stuff out of dead people's name to living people. That's. Its purpose is figuring out who are your heirs, who are the people that are entitled to your stuff after you have passed away. So let's say you had a house, you had some vehicles and you had some bank accounts. You have no plan in place, those bank accounts will be frozen because the bank doesn't know who should get the funds that are in there, and so we have to then go to probate court and say, hey, judge, we need to put somebody in place to be able to access those funds, sell that property if need be, or distribute it to whoever the next heir is. Now, whether that person died with a will or without a will kind of dictates a little bit about how things will flow. If the person had no will, then we have to look for whatever heirs they may have. So that is a perfect and ripe opportunity for people to step up and say, hey, he was my daddy too, or I'm her love child that you may not have known about, and so all of that has to be addressed. We have to go through all of that in probate court. I had a case recently. They thought it was just three children. It's actually eight. That was quite a surprise. Yes, one extra one. So you also think about your legacy and what you're trying to leave and how that feels for your kids to discover all these other kids and it can be so messy guys. So once we have to do potential dna testing, we may have to exhume that body to get a sample to be able to test those people. Yeah, it gets really really deep.
Speaker 1:Um, once we figure out who all the heirs are. Then we got to get everything um handled with creditors. So this is what people don't understand when you die, your creditors don't just go away. Everybody's like I'm taking it to the grave. No, don't go that way.
Speaker 1:So under georgia law, we have to publish for your creditors and most credit card loans all of them. They have a whole department whose job it is to read the obituaries and to read the paper to see who done died and owe them money, and so they can then file a claim and say, hey, she died. This is amex. She owed me ten thousand dollars and so those bank accounts that were frozen. Now those funds need to either be used to settle with amex or, if you left money, uh debt, to the irs, we have to pay the irs. We have to pay, um, any last funeral expenses or medical expenses that you may have had. Um, if you had any attorney fees, those need to be taken care of and then what's left will be distributed among those children. So sometimes there's nothing left. Or maybe you didn't have any bank accounts, maybe all you left was that house and that vehicle and IRS and Amex, and everybody say we're going to need to force the sale of that because we need our money.
Speaker 3:So the question I think people may have in their minds is in the event of you passing well, granted, I take it back. If you pass young unexpectedly and you had student loans what happens with those.
Speaker 1:Now student loans are a little different. Now those most are forgiven when you pass, especially if they're federal loans. Those are definitely going to go. Some of the private lenders I've seen they still try. They at least going to file a claim and let the judge tell them they're not entitled to the money.
Speaker 2:So what you just described, the thing that always sticks out to me about probate is how long it takes from start to finish. But what you just described, the DNA testing finding all the errors, uncovering what are the assets, and all of that I mean that takes a long time, I'm assuming.
Speaker 1:It does.
Speaker 3:Of course not.
Speaker 1:So I will tell you now post-COVID. Post-covid, we're back to kind of normal in the probate world. But even the best streamlined case, where we know that it's only one heir and we know all the assets, that still could be anywhere from eight months to a year. And then here's what people don't think about what if that house had a mortgage? Who's paying it for eight months to a year? And so what we see a lot of times is the largest asset in that estate gets lost before we can even finish probating the estate, because the mortgage company is not in there. They don't care that you have died, they don't care that this is being sorted out in probate court. They want their money. This house was put up as collateral and so if it is not a payment, it reverts back to them, and so a lot of people end up losing the home while we're trying to sort this all out.
Speaker 2:That's devastating.
Speaker 3:That is the number one thing when I sit down with someone and they own property you know, own a home and they don't have a will or anything established I'm like they're like, oh well, if I pass away so and so will get this. I'm like you need to have this in writing and also have a way to fund it, because if you don't have it, in writing.
Speaker 1:As you said before, it could take a long time and added a debt, because if they already have a home, they're paying their own mortgage and they're going to pay your mortgage for eight months to a year before they even know if the house is going to finally come to them. Most people are not willing to sign up for that and especially if you have multiple siblings and they're all in dispute well, I'm not paying. So sometimes you'll see nobody wants to pay the mortgage because they don't know if the house is actually coming to them or they don't want to pay the property taxes. Property taxes also come due and so we have seen families time and time again lose the properties just because they're still fighting. We have not gotten through the DNA testing, we have not gotten through the hard feelings to even start to deal with the assets gotten through the hard feelings to even start to deal with the assets and not to get too deep.
Speaker 3:you know, when you have multiple siblings, that doesn't even get into the weeds, where if you have a piece of land and it's divvied up between five individuals and maybe one individual wants to sell, and what that causes.
Speaker 1:Listen, don't get me started. I even work in real estate planning and we see it all the time Mom comes in she's like well, I got five kids. I can't treat one better than others. Give it to all five. And I'm trying to explain to her how this is going to be a logistical nightmare once you are gone, because one's going to want to sell it, one wants to live on it, one wants to make it an Airbnb and nobody wants to pay. What do we do then? And so we can force, they can force sales. And so what would have been an asset that maybe we could have rented out, get some passive income up. Now we have to sell it Now.
Speaker 3:It's gone Now the benefit we would have gotten is gone. There are people who look for those specific situations and they go and target one individual and they're like they force the sale, which allows them to actually end up buying everything right and then that's how we lose generational wealth and assets and all the things back to when there's no plan.
Speaker 1:That's how we perish. Because you have the one holdout that's like I just want my money, I just want my money. And then you have this investor that comes in quietly and is just like, hey, if y'all sell that, this is what you would get. And now that person's pushing everybody to sell. They're not doing the research, they're not looking at the market, they're not understanding what we could do with this property down the road, and so now everybody's just frustrated and hard feelings and they just sell. And then I tell people that's when a Starbucks moves in.
Speaker 2:Yes, I do have a question. You said at the beginning, if there's not a plan in place, you know everything gets frozen. What happens to those accounts that do have a beneficiary attached? But if there is no will or no trust, what happens to my 401k? I have a named beneficiary but I have nothing else in place. Can you walk us through that?
Speaker 1:Sure. So bank accounts, life insurance, 401ks you can do a beneficiary or you can designate who it will be paid to on death or transferred to on death. So whoever you have placed on those documents, it goes directly to those people. So your 401k, for example, that's a contractual relationship. You put your money in, you decide where it goes from there. So those stay out of your probate estate. Those just pass based on whatever you've put on there. Same thing with the life insurance you pay the premium. In exchange, they will pay these people after you have passed away.
Speaker 1:A lot of times people don't put somebody name on there, or they put somebody who's already pre-deceased them, and so now it's like, okay, well, where does the money go if that is the case and that, or my favorite, you haven't looked at those forms since you got that job 20 years ago and you put your first wife and you own wife number three, and so when you pass and wife number three is calling my office because she don't understand why wife number one got all the money. Because we have to look at these things regularly. This is part of planning is making sure this is consistent with where you are in life and where your wishes are so, while those things pass outside of probate, you want to make sure it's going to the right people.
Speaker 3:Yes, I do yearly beneficiary updates to make sure that nothing's changed no relationships, no hard feelings or whatever where you want to change actual beneficiaries. I do that because, unfortunately, I did have a scenario where I did not put the life insurance in place. I was simply um the individual who had to deliver the death benefit and it was not to his current wife, because he had his ex-wife on there and did not update it, and that was not a fun conversation.
Speaker 2:And it was. It was more than a million dollars, right.
Speaker 3:No, it was. It was 600, more than a million dollars no, it was 600 000.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, I mean still a substantial amount of money.
Speaker 3:That's a lot of money, yes, and I was like there's nothing like because the the actual second wife who thought it was coming to her, called in and asked about it and I was like you're not on, you're not the beneficiary. So I came to give you any information and they were like what I was like?
Speaker 3:he called your office, then she probably called my office, thinking she could do something legally and no, and I love that you point out because, like once it's, once you pass away and that paperwork is how it is. I don't think there's nothing you can do about it.
Speaker 1:No, no, I mean there are challenges to the paperwork if there's some belief that maybe that person was coerced into putting that person on there, but those are usually. When you see somebody on their deathbed changing forms and all this other stuff, then there might be an argument. But he filled that form out 20 years ago. There's no challenge here. He knew what he was doing then. You should have changed it if he wanted it to be something different.
Speaker 3:So the one thing I want to make sure that our listeners really understand and, you know, hopefully start to enact and do some actual actions is for the, for a regular person, what is the most basic estate planning that should be done for most people?
Speaker 1:For almost everybody, I say if you don't do anything else, do your power of attorney and do your advanced healthcare directive. Your power of attorney is probably the most powerful of all of your estate documents, because we don't know when we're going to have a stroke, we don't know when we're going to have a heart attack, we don't know when we're going to have dementia and when the people that you love don't have the authority and the power to do anything for you. That's when things just kind of go amok. And so the power of attorney allows someone to step in your shoes and really take over paying the mortgage, going to the banks, making sure that you know if a lawsuit needs to be brought on your behalf, then they can stand in as you in that lawsuit, they can file your taxes. They literally step in your shoes and do all the things that you're currently doing with your finances. So the power of attorney is for that purpose. And then the advanced healthcare directive, because we want to.
Speaker 1:You want to designate who has a say in your healthcare decision-making. If you could not speak for yourself, who is the person that's going to advocate for you? Who's going to say, no, we need a second opinion, no, we need to leave this hospital. They're not giving you the quality of care that you need. And then if the doctors are saying, listen, there is no likelihood they're going to recover, what do you want us to do? We've done all we know how to do medically. Who makes that final decision about it's time to either let natural death occur or it's time to continue to fight and go elsewhere? And what happens is you have five kids. Everybody want to be in charge and they all feel differently about whether mama should continue, you know, on this respirator or it's time to let her go. So we need one person that's going to be that point person, and mom needs to designate who that's going to be.
Speaker 2:But just to be clear, it doesn't need to be a child, right, like if?
Speaker 2:I know right, like if my five my five children are too emotionally invested because they're my children to think clearly. In a situation like that, I should designate somebody who can be clear minded and firm in their decision making, understand my wishes in whatever the situation is, and it doesn't have to be a family member or a child or a sibling, right, it could be anybody who you think is going to make the best decisions based on your wishes in those moments, right?
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. A lot of times clients name best friend, deacon at the church, whoever they know is going to advocate for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 3:So one of the things you also hear so much on social media is about trust. Have a trust for this, have a trust for that. Can you break down maybe, the basic idea that let's just use us as the example? I'm 41. She's 39. We have two kids. I own a home. Do we need a trust? And if so, what trust? What type of trust would you, you know, think would be best?
Speaker 1:All right. So do you need a trust? I would say yes, because you have those minor kids. If you didn't have minor kids, my answer might be a little bit different.
Speaker 1:What I love about a trust is if something were to happen to both of you today and those minor kids are still minors. We now have a plan for all of those assets, whether they're going to be held in trust till those kids get to a different age, whether we've given the trustee the discretion to use those funds for their health, education and maintenance until they get to the age of majority. So it gives you a lot of control over what will happen to your assets in response to those minor kids and getting them to the age of majority. A will doesn't really do that. The will just says here's my stuff, who it goes to when I'm dead. You can, in theory, put a trust in a will, but then that has to be overseen by the probate court and we don't like that because then there's fees involved and there's always got to get court permission. So the trust that you set up now, while you're still alive, for your minor kids give you maximum control over how everything is going to be distributed. Now, as far as what type of trust? Because, yeah, tikt, tiktok has everybody in these streets calling me about a trust. I had a lady come in literally last week who was just like my grandbaby says I need a trust because she's not on TikTok, and I was like, okay, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Now there are all types of trust. There is, I mean, generation skipping trust. There is like, but the two main categories of trust are revocable trust and irrevocable trust. There is, I mean, generation skipping trust. There is like, but the two main categories of trust are revocable trust and irrevocable trust. And then within those categories, there are different types. Most common is a revocable trust and that just simply means that you two, jessica and Brandon, are the creators of the trust, but you are also the first managers of that trust. So you're your first trustees and anything you put in, you still have retained the right to be able to take out, to change how you want to make those distributions, so you can take that things out, put things in and amend that trust as often as your heart desires.
Speaker 1:Now, after you pass away typically after the first death, when I have couples it becomes irrevocable, and that's the second category. Those are the trusts that don't change. Those are the ones that we're not moving things in and out of. Think of it as I say trusts are like treasure chests. We're just dumping the assets in there. We're dumping the house in there. We're dumping the cars in there, the bank accounts in there. I draft a manual to all the things that's in there, when they can come out and who they go to With the irrevocable trust. We're dumping everything in there, but we're putting a padlock on that treasure chest.
Speaker 2:That's the difference. Your analogies are just incredible because I literally have the visual and I'm like, ooh, padlock, ooh, I can open this. They're fantastic. I just needed to call that out.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you, because I do a lot of presentations in the African-American community because this is foreign to us. We haven't benefited from trust. Other communities they're generationally, they've been doing this. Our communities are just starting to have these conversations and so it's important for me to be able to make this as plain as possible for people to understand, like how these things work.
Speaker 2:So thank you, you're doing a great job. No, that's perfect. I think that that leads me to one point that I think we definitely want to get into with the time that we have left, which is our children. You're a parent, we're parents. Most I would say most of our listeners are probably parents, and so the assumption I think is oh, if something happens, like Brandon and I travel a lot, we don't do the thing where it's like you take this plane ride, I take, like we're traveling together.
Speaker 2:So if the plane's going down, we're gone. Okay, if we didn't have our will and our trust and our guardianship in place, what happens to the children? Because I think the assumption is oh, my mom gets the kids or my brother gets the kids, or somebody in the family gets the kids and it'll be okay. Talk to us about what actually happens if you don't have proper planning in place for the guardianship of your children, should something happen.
Speaker 1:That's a great question. So you're right, the presumption is some family member is going to get the kids. And it's actually happened in my community. The husband and wife died on vacation. So think about, let's say, you guys got in a car accident date night, those kids are with the babysitter and you didn't come home. Well, that 18 year old babysitter is gonna call 9-1-1 because they don't know what else to do.
Speaker 1:Um, and then defects is gonna get involved and that's where people don't realize like defects, that's their job to come in and say, okay, where are these parents? So those kids might end up in foster care before they eventually get to some family members. And then it's which family members? Okay, brandon has his, you know, siblings and his um parents. You have your sibling and your parents. Who, who's the the right one? You have a certain set of values and beliefs about how you want your children raised and you might have some family members that you're like absolutely not. We are not congruent in how we believe children should be brought up and those might be the very one that gets the children, because at that point it becomes just a traditional custody battle. So your kids might end up in DFAX care until DFAX can then locate family.
Speaker 1:So it's whether Brandon's side of the family picks up before your side of the family picks up family. So it's whether Brandon's side of the family picks up before your side of the family picks up, then they might go to them temporary. But then your family says no, I think that she would have wanted these children to go to me. So now they file for custody. So now the judge has to listen to all the tests. It becomes a trial. It's a custody trial just like in a divorce or any other type of hearing, and they have to determine and weigh the evidence and figure out which one of these parties are the ones that are best suited for raising these children. And again, the judge does not know either one of you and don't know your family. So they don't know anything outside of what is presented in that courtroom. They don't know what your personal beliefs were about some of these family members.
Speaker 2:Now you and I, before the call, talked about guardianship versus conservatorship, and I think my reference for conservatorship is obviously Britney Spears right, because that was the conservatorship situation that I think any millennial knows about. But can you talk to us about the difference between guardianship and conservatorship, and would those be the same people? Can they be different people? What does, or should that look like?
Speaker 1:Okay. So again, this is real estate specific, what they call it here in Georgia. We have conservator of the assets, so funds and bank accounts and stuff, and then we have guardianship of the person, so your actual physical body. Can they be the same one and the same? Yes, are they often. It just really depends. So let's say again, we'll use the minor children because we do guardianships and conservatorships for minor children. Often the guardianship and who is going to actually be responsible for rearing that child may happen in probate court. That's temporary. Or might happen in um, our higher court, superior court, where that we're looking at permanent. But then who's going to be in charge of any funds that that child may have inherited or may have received as a result of you guys passing. That happens in probate court and again the judge decides who is going to be over those funds. Sometimes it's a family member who's petitioned to be over those funds, or sometimes it's somebody that's appointed by the court who is then paid out of those funds that they are managing for that minor child.
Speaker 1:What I don't love about conservatorships and what people really need to understand is when that child turns 18, everything that's in that conservatorship is handed over to them because by law they are now an adult. So if it's a million dollars in that conservatorship is handed over to them because by law they are now an adult. So if it's a million dollars in that conservatorship, are they going to have it at 18 and a half or 19 and so without a plan there is no way to control that, because that is the law, that is the default, whereas when you do a trust and you've left those funds to that minor child in trust, you get to control when that child receives those funds. So you can say, maybe the first ten thousand and eighteen, but you're getting some, some monthly payments or yearly payments over the course of some time because I want to wait till you're more mature and can handle it.
Speaker 3:Because I want to wait till you're more mature and can handle it, and when you meet with the estate planning attorney and you establish a trust, they can help you as far as writing all that language into the trust correct?
Speaker 1:Yep, that's my job. You don't worry about the language, you just tell me what your wishes are. If you come in and tell me listen my child's on drugs, I know that. You know leaving them a lump sum of money is gonna be to their detriment. I will do the drafting of the language, making sure that either they're gonna get drug tested before they get any distributions or maybe they get skipped because of those drugs, or whatever the case may be, I do that piece. You just tell me what the concerns are and what the wish is.
Speaker 3:And I have one more. I have one question for you as far as your viewpoint, because obviously there are things like legal Zoom that I think too many people use but I want to get your.
Speaker 2:Anybody not watching on YouTube. She just made a face.
Speaker 3:I want to get your take on legal Zoom, because I think you and I are the same mindset when it comes to this, but I want to hear what you had to say.
Speaker 1:So and I'm not picking on LegalZoom there's a bunch of different done for you. Diy software, I just call them DIY software. Out there on the internet you can download, print these little PDFs, or you can buy a little will kit at uh office depot.
Speaker 2:all of those I have seen those yeah you.
Speaker 1:Yes, you get what you pay for, listen I. It baffles me that you've spent whatever 500 000 on this house. You've got insurance for this house, you've done all the things, but you've never taken the next step to make sure you know what's going to happen to that house.
Speaker 2:Like, if the house burned down, you got insurance, you know exactly what's going to happen.
Speaker 1:You're going to get a check, but you've never taken the next step and you're not willing to make the investment to make sure that it's done properly. So I've seen documents from some of these DIYs and the second part of my practice is probate. We go to probate court quite a bit. We make a lot of money off of those documents because they're wrong. They're always wrong and if you look at the fine print on all of those websites, they will tell you go consult an attorney, because it's not what you think it is.
Speaker 1:We've seen people leave everything to the cat. We've seen we had one I'll tell you this story because I have tons of them but we had this one woman who owned a lot of property. She had done a will previously but needed to revoke that will. She fell out with the people. She had left everything too. She asked her grandson for help. Him and his sister would have been her only heirs. Grandson decided to be cheap, went online online, got one of these diys like it's fine, grandma just filled this out. We spent what? Two and a half years in litigation oh my gosh so he, he paid what?
Speaker 1:80 bucks online. He paid 50 000 when we were done with court. So you get what you pay for yeah, I also tell people that software.
Speaker 3:It spits out what you put in.
Speaker 1:So if you don't know, what you're putting in.
Speaker 3:you might have thought that you put in the right information, but you're putting in the wrong information and technically, what they spit out for you is correct, but you put in the wrong info.
Speaker 1:That's terrible, exactly so. It can be very expensive. I tell people, cheap is expensive, like it can. On the back end you might be saving a few bucks, but you're going to leave such a nightmare for your children to fight about and years of court and hurt feelings, and this is your legacy. This is the last memory that they're going to have of you. So when your name comes up in conversation.
Speaker 3:Huh, this is the last memory that they're going to have of you, so when your name comes up in conversation, huh, you only get one time to do it, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so when you, you know your name comes up in conversation, it's not going to be those warm memories of oh, it was so lovely, you know, going to grandma house.
Speaker 2:It's like do you know how much we have been fighting ever since grandma died? Yeah, why would you want that? I do just quickly want to go back to the children and the guardianship and conservatorship. What do people need to do to avoid exactly what you just described? Like I could not imagine our children going you know the example you gave of like the babysitter's. Here, we're on a date night, we get in a terrible accident, we don't come home and our children going into foster care right Especially, we've got two grandmas right up the road. I cannot fathom that thought. How do we avoid that from happening? What do we need to put into place?
Speaker 1:So first off, you need to train your babysitters. Do not call 911, first. Call grandma, call those people and have them come over, and then we call 911. You also want to put in place in Georgia we can do what's called a standby guardianship. So we literally put together a paper that says here is kind of temporarily, who would be the guardian of our children in the event something were to happen to us. So you want to call that guardian first. Call that guardian. They come over, they have their paperwork, like look, they've already named me. So then when DFAX and 911 shows up, then they're like, oh, they already dealt with that. Great, well, you're here now let's get, you's get everything in place. Then, if need be, they can file for permanent guardianship.
Speaker 1:The court is going to give great weight to the fact that this is the person you selected when you did that temporary guardianship. So that is very likely. Who is going to end up with those children? That's how you prevent that. Then if let's say you did pass away, let's say that horrible accident you both passed in your will, you can also name who would be your guardians for minor children. And so if you name the same person that you named as the temporary, then they will likely stay in that role. But you can name somebody that's temporary grandma that's up the street just for emergency type situations, and then permanently. Who's going to raise them to majority might be somebody totally different.
Speaker 3:Okay, that's a great call, that's a really good call out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Okay. We could talk to you for hours, because I know that there's so much more that we oh, we just scratched the surface, I know.
Speaker 2:We're like barely there. We need to have part two, part three, part four of this conversation. This has been so, so wonderful. We want to leave our listeners with, like, a final thought. I know that there's so much that we want them to take action on, if they haven't already, and to speak with an attorney within their state and to ask the questions. Draft the right paperwork. Don't take the cheap 1999 Office Depot you know paperwork route like actually go and meet with an attorney. What would you leave our listeners with as a final thought or call to action today?
Speaker 1:So people always ask me well, what's the first step? Because they hear me speak and then they're like super overwhelmed and don't know where to go from there. First, organize your assets. Know what you own. If you think somebody else is going to be able to find them, like no, so get everything organized and then go speak to an attorney and say, okay, here's what I have, here's what I own, here's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 1:But organization is a huge part of this, because when that person dies and now everybody's, everybody turns into detectives, because we got to figure out who you had life insurance with, who you know who was your 401k with, and we don't live at home with our parents anymore, so we don't know what they have, we don't know who they bank with, or you'd be surprised, even within spouses I've had situations where spouses are like I don't know who our mortgage company is. So get as organized as you can, with the assumption that somebody else is going to have to look and deal with this. So take yourself out of this and say, ok, if somebody else had to do this, would they know where my bank accounts are? Would they know where my life insurance is? Would they know that I own this little plot of land that I never developed. So get all of that organized and then go see an attorney. Stop being cheap.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 3:That's it Like you said being cheap is expensive.
Speaker 2:I love that. We just did an episode on. We called it our when I Die Guide and we actually. It's a 17-page document that we created and it's literally exactly that. It's an organization document to help you get organized on what you have where are your accounts, who are your beneficiaries, what are the account numbers, what do you own?
Speaker 2:And even down to what kind of funeral do you want to have? What do those wishes look like? You know, do you want to have it at the church? Do you want to have it at the park? Do you want? You know, what do you want your scriptures to be? What do you want the music to be? I mean, all of that is so in line with with what you just said, because it sounds like just like we've we've talked about when there isn't a plan in place, when people don't know what even exists. That's when, instead of taking the time to grieve like you should, you're digging through documents and you're playing detective and you're spending countless hours, weeks, months and potentially even longer to even just get things sorted out before you can even have a resolve. So what you just said is totally in line with what we've been kind of preaching as well and trying to help people with just from a surface, non-legal level. So thank you for confirming that we're on the right track.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so one of the things I always do is I have a running Google doc for us and for my clients as far as all the important information of where things are located at and stuff of that nature, and just periodically updating those. But then also, for example, like having um, I always make sure that if something were to happen to you, who would be the individual that would take care of your kids, who is the individual that would handle your estate estate, because I need to know their name and they need to know my name so that you know, in the event that that does happen, they have somebody else that can help them out with all that stuff yeah, now I'll say, with that google doc, just make sure somebody else know how to get to it, because I've had to get plenty of court orders to get into computers because family members are like I know it's on their computer.
Speaker 1:We live in such a digital age right now.
Speaker 3:I tell them we create the Google Doc. You have it. Now you need to share it with the person who would be in charge of it.
Speaker 1:Yes, because we end up unfortunately, seeing so many people like I know she lived on this computer. Everything is in there, but I have no idea how to get in there, so it's almost like what was the point in her doing it. So, yes, share it.
Speaker 2:Nicola, for anybody in Georgia specifically right that wants to get in touch with you, work with you, get their life organized, get their estate plan together. Where can they find you? How should they reach out?
Speaker 1:Sure, the easiest is pick up the phone, like we old school just call the office. Can I share the number?
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course, and we'll put it all in the show notes as well. Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1:Okay, perfect, so you can call our office at 404-410-6505. We are all on almost all social media platforms, such as Google, sr law. We have a podcast, so you can always. If you want to hear more of me, you know explaining this, you can always hop on there as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, you have been a wealth of knowledge. Thank you for helping us scratch the surface. Let's be very clear there's so much more to estate planning than what we covered in this hour, but this has been so fantastic. Thank you for sharing your expertise with us. We're so grateful to have you on the Sugar Daddy podcast today.
Speaker 1:Thank you guys for having me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Don't forget. Benjamin Franklin said an investment in knowledge pays the best interest. You just got paid Until next time. Thanks for listening to today's episode. We are so glad to have you as part of our Sugar Daddy community. If you learned something today, please remember to subscribe, rate, review and share this episode with your friends, family and extended network. Don't forget to connect with us on social media. At TheSugarDaddyPodcast, you can also email us your questions you want us to answer for our Pass the Sugar segments at TheSugarDaddyPodcast at gmailcom or leave us a voicemail through our Instagram.
Speaker 3:Our content is intended to be used, and must be used, for informational purposes only. It is very important to do your own analysis before making any investment based upon your own personal circumstances. You should take independent financial advice from a licensed professional in connection with or independently research and verify any information you find in our podcast and which you rely upon, whether for the purpose of making an investment decision or otherwise.
