The Sugar Daddy Podcast
Ready to normalize talking about money? Then welcome to The Sugar Daddy Podcast, where talking about money isn't taboo, and you can leave your past money mistakes at the door! Every episode will get you one step closer to your financial goals. Whether that is learning how to invest, budget, save, retire early or simply make better money choices, Jess & Brandon have got you covered in a way that's easy to understand. Tune in as they demystify the realm of dollars, so it all makes cents, while giving you a glimpse into their relationship with money and each other.
The Norwoods are a married, millennial couple, here to help you build wealth, so you can live the life you've always dreamed of. Brandon is an award winning licensed financial planner, and owner of Oak City Financial, with over a decade of experience and millions of dollars managed for his clients all over the United States.
New episodes published the first three Wednesdays of every month.
The Sugar Daddy Podcast
68: Transforming Your Finances Through Biblical Principles with Lilias John
Financial wisdom meets timeless biblical principles with special guest Lilias John. From an unexpected inheritance to stark financial mismanagement in her college years, to teaching financial literacy in Harlem, this episode will take you on a journey of growth and transformation. Her story is a powerful testament to the transformative potential of financial education rooted in biblical principles. Join Jess and Brandon as they explore the profound relationship between faith and finances. This is an episode you don’t want to miss.
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Notes from the show:
Connect with Lilias-
https://instagram.com/yourfinancialstylist
https://facebook.com/yourfinancialstylist
https://youtube.com/yourfinancialstylist
https://tiktok.com/yourfinancialstylist
http://yourfinancialstylist.com
If you don't feel connected to the tithe, you don't have to do it. But for those who do feel connected to it, to tell them to stop to pay off debt even though the numbers financially work, it would be a violation of their conscience. And now I'm causing them to sin, and so I can't put someone in a position to violate their conscience and sin against their God when they've made a commitment, even if that commitment looks like on paper that financially it's hurting them.
Speaker 2:Hey babe, what are we talking about today?
Speaker 3:Today we have a super amazing guest in our stew. We have Lilius John. She is one of the fierce women that I met at the Women in Money event. Remember when I popped literally in and out of New York City and Lilius and I had we met. We sat next to each other at dinner and our conversation just blew me away. And I was like you have to be on our podcast, so guess what? She is here with us today, lilius, we are so excited to have you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for being on the Sugar Daddy podcast. Thank you, this is so exciting and I loved meeting you, jessica. We had such a good conversation.
Speaker 3:It was instant connection. And I I was like and we're soul sisters and she also lives in North Carolina so we're practically neighbors. Yeah, it was just meant to be it was just meant to be it was
Speaker 2:for sure in case anybody doesn't know, one of just the superpowers is that she connects with everybody she's a people person. Person. I'm semi opposite.
Speaker 3:You're like a troll that wants to stay at home and not be bothered. I'm like, oh, I talked to our neighbor so and so and he's like who? And I'm like we've lived here for six years, how do you not know who our neighbors are? But anyways, it is my superpower and that has led us to Lilius. So I'm really excited. Now, this conversation I'm just going to say up front it can go in so many directions because Lilius, really she's just a force. But I essentially told her we need to recreate our conversation from dinner because there was so much. I mean, my jaw was just on the floor and I was like tell me more, I need to know more. So we're going to do a little bit of everything, but let's get into this bio so that people know who you are and all the different directions we could potentially take in this conversation today. Yeah, sounds good, yay, okay.
Speaker 3:Lillias John, also known as your financial stylist, is a finance coach, real estate consultant and mom of six. So y'all already know she's a superhero. She teaches biblical financial principles which clients use to transform their finances, break free from debt and start to manage money God's way. With over 20 years experience in real estate, she is also known for teaching homeowners how to build equity in their home without being a landlord, airbnb host or house flipper. She has writing credits in Huffington Post, black Enterprise, debtcom, creditcom, and is a respected voice in the personal finance industry. Okay, so see what I mean. Like we could go real estate, we can go biblical finance, we can do all the things.
Speaker 2:How do you manage to have six kids and still do all the things? How?
Speaker 3:do you manage to have six kids and and still do all the things? Yeah, yeah. Are you sane? Lilias are you.
Speaker 1:That's a. I think so, by the grace of god yes, six kids.
Speaker 3:Well, we always start off our conversations with our guests with your first money memory and I know that's going to kind of lead us into the rest of our discussion, but but if you would share that with us, we'd love to hear it.
Speaker 1:It's funny because I don't think we talked about that at dinner. But my first money memory is with my grandmother and her having like envelopes tucked all over the house with money, like under the dresser, under the mattress, in different drawers. She had envelopes of money stashed away all different places in the house as her savings account. No this was just like additional. She had a savings account too. She had a savings account for herself, she had a savings account for me, and then she had, like all these other little stashes.
Speaker 2:So what was?
Speaker 1:the purpose of having?
Speaker 2:What was the purpose of I?
Speaker 1:think maybe certain ones for like were like for bills like that maybe weren't due yet, but she was receiving Social Security and so she got one check a month and was just I don't know why they were tucked under dressers and I don't know. That part I can't answer, but yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3:Did part I can't answer, but yeah, I don't know, Did you ever bring her an envelope and be like grandma? What's this?
Speaker 1:No, oh, no, no, I like my life I had to like Just find a random envelope somewhere. See and don't see, I would have to just put it back and like I remember, like, looking for, like my shoe one day and going under the dresser and finding this envelope of money and just, and my shoe and your shoe, putting it back and taking my shoe and going about my day.
Speaker 3:That is so funny. If I did that, I would. I would just be losing money.
Speaker 2:You sure would, all over the house. I would never find it again.
Speaker 3:Never, I know I'm so organized that I I over organize myself sometimes so organized that you over organize.
Speaker 2:So organized you can't find things don't make that face.
Speaker 3:That's rude. It's rude.
Speaker 1:Well, there's probably something really beneficial to glean from that. I'm telling you, yeah so is your.
Speaker 2:is your grandmother still with us? Okay, when she did pass, did you guys have to, like, scour through the house to account for all the envelopes?
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, in fact I was the one who was able to tell them. There are envelopes, here's one, here's another one, you know, and it was kind of like I don't think my family had no idea.
Speaker 2:I definitely have heard stories from other people that I know that when their grandparents passed away, that they're going through the house and organizing everything and finding money in pots and pans, finding money in old shoeboxes and stuff like that Oatmeal containers Seems like maybe a common thing with that generation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so, I think so they wanted to spread their money out.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, lilius, at dinner we talked about so many things, but I want to start off our conversation about how you, how you started your money journey right, because even on your social media, you're very open about the things that have happened in your life, the money mistakes that you've made. You know you're not out here being like I'm a millionaire who's done everything perfectly. You're like no, there have been hurdles and blocks and learnings along the way.
Speaker 3:And one of one of the things that you mentioned early on in our conversation was your adoption story, and then, what happened with your biological father, so I would love for you to share that with our audience and kind of how that catapulted your your finance journey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so okay. So my grandmother passed away in 92 and 93. So I was 12 at the time and she had been my primary guardian for my entire life. My biological father actually passed away the year I was born. My mother was still living at that time and I had to.
Speaker 1:You know, my family had to figure out where I was going to live after that, and so my grandmother had three sons and so one of my uncles I guess they had a powwow and one of my uncles. They decided that I was going to go live with him. Him and his wife were empty nesters already at the time. My other two uncles they still were raising children and so I ended up living there and I lived there until I graduated from high school and I knew my grandmother left me an inheritance and then my grandfather he also died in 93. And he also left me an inheritance. Now context my grandmother died in a car accident that I was in with her. Grandmother died in a car accident that I was in with her. So there was also a settlement excuse me, that came from that accident that I also received when I graduated from high school. So I think, all in total between my grandfather, my grandmother and the settlement I received about $67,000.
Speaker 3:Have you been listening to our podcast and wondering how am I really doing with my money? Am I doing the right things with my investments? Am I on track to reach my financial goals? What could I be doing better? If you answered yes to any of these questions, then it's time for you to reach out to Brandon to schedule your free yes, I said free 30-minute introduction conversation to see how his services could help make you the more confident moneymaker we know you could be. What are you waiting for? It's literally free and at the very least, you'll walk away feeling more empowered and confident about your financial future. Link is in our show notes. Go schedule your call today.
Speaker 1:It. Actually I didn't get it Like it wasn't like you turn 18 and you got a check. It was kind of like you're going to college, we're going to pay for your first semester of college from this money. And my uncle who I love very dearly at some point I guess he said, well, and here's the things that I bought you for college and now you've got to pay me back and I'm going to write myself a check out of your account. And then it was like I was getting canceled checks for like his mortgage and I was like, oh, we're gonna, we're gonna wrap this up real quick.
Speaker 1:So I got a job at a bank my first year of college and I opened my own account and I transferred all the money out and kind of stopped talking to my family at that point in time and realized like by my second semester and I'm writing like my next check to go to college and it was $8,000 per semester and I was like, man, at this rate I'm going to run out of money. So I'm going to transfer. And I was. I was going to a private university at the time and I transferred to a public like a community college so that I wouldn't run out of money, spending it on college. But I still ended up spending all the money anyway.
Speaker 1:Right, so I was. I got an apartment, I got a car. I started doing really ridiculous things with my money, like I would go visit my friends who were still living on campus and I would come with no bags, just me myself and my wallet, and in the morning I would get up and go to the mall and buy everything new, down to my underwear. Oh my gosh, like, really like ridiculous types of things.
Speaker 3:And then of course, I'm in college that people in their early 20s.
Speaker 1:Why don't you want the flexibility and freedom to go buy a new outfit every time you sleep on campus in your friend's dorm room? Absolutely, this makes complete sense. I mean everything. Everything new towel, washcloth, like everything brand new and um. And of course, because I was also 19, 20, you know, I'm like we're going to a party, we're going to buy bottles, I'm going to buy bottles, I'm going to buy new sneakers, I'm going to buy this, I'm going to buy that.
Speaker 1:So by the time, like my third year, so I ran out of money before I graduated college, anyway, but it was on things that I was enjoying, right. But by the time that happened, I was so annoyed with myself Like by now I'm 21 and I'm like I didn't know anything about investing at that time. I didn't know anything about money management, even though both of my grandparents were very, very good with money. When my grandfather died, he left $75,000 that we needed to split between me, my sister and my brother. My grandmother was as good managing money, you know, obviously, having a plan for bills and tucking all the dollars away, but they never taught us how to do that, right.
Speaker 1:So we had an example, but there was never a conversation. So we had an example, but there was never a conversation. So, knowing how much my grandfather left when he died, I was like, man, I need to rebuild this money and I don't know how to do it, but I'm sure there's a way. And so, 21, I'm working at Citibank, so I kept in the banks for a long time and you would think, working in banks, you would learn how to manage money. They don't actually teach employees how to manage money at the bank guys, which is so crazy, you would think it'd be like part of your onboarding or something right Like hey, be good with money.
Speaker 2:Here's how to do that Technically. It's not a function of your job.
Speaker 1:It's not. That's exactly right.
Speaker 2:They're like why would we teach you that Right, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1:They just wanted to make sure you're not like. They want to know that you're not a thief, right, but they don't teach you how to do well with your money. So, and I stayed. I worked at Fleet Bank so this is aging myself, because that's a long time ago, right Before they became Bank of America. Then I worked at Bank of America, then I worked at Citibank, and when I worked at Citibank, I was working in the call center. I'm 21 years old, I'm broke. I have $0, right, it's just what I'm making for my paycheck.
Speaker 1:And one of the guys who sat in front of me in the call center is reading this book and I'm like what are you reading? And he's like it's a book about how to manage money. And and by now the car that I bought got repossessed. I left my apartment, I went back home to live with my family and I knew I wanted to rebuild this money. So I didn't know that when a car gets repossessed, that you still have to pay the bill. To pay the bill, right? And my credit tanked.
Speaker 1:So I take this book from him and I photocopy all the pages on how to repair your credit. And the book was really about how to buy a home. But those were the pages that were important to me and I sat down for 18 months and repaired my credit myself, paid off the repossession. That took me almost three years, paid off the repossession, repaired my credit, took my credit from a 550 to a 750. It's amazing. Yeah, it was, it was. And then I was like you know what, as I started to learn how to manage money, I started reading everything. So that book was like and I wish I could remember the name of the book. But that book was like the catalyst. I still have those copies somewhere. I know they're here somewhere.
Speaker 3:I just don't know. You should put them in a frame, because they like started your journey right, commemorate them yeah.
Speaker 1:So I just started reading everything I could Money Magazine, entrepreneur Magazine. I started reading the money section in the newspaper. The internet is new and young, but there's still articles on there about money management and I just started reading everything I could and I was like you know what, if I did this for myself and I have this success story for myself with my credit there's got to be someone else who would benefit from this, who has never heard of this book, who's never going to have a chance to read it. I'm going to start talking about this and money management and I started learning, like about how to pull money together and invest.
Speaker 1:And I got a group of 20 of my friends together and I was like hey guys, we're going to, if we each put in $200 a month for one year, at the end of the year we'll be able to buy a Subway restaurant, because this is when everybody was buying Subway franchises. And I was like and if we do that in one year and then the second year we buy a second franchise, we're going to be these big entrepreneurs and these owners and we can grow from there. My friends looked at me like we're going to the club on Saturday. We don't know what you're talking about and we're not interested.
Speaker 1:And so I was so discouraged. I think I had like two friends who were interested and because everyone else said no, the two friends who said yes, I was like forget it, we're not doing it. I should have done it with them, with those two.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we know that now, but yes, yes, hindsight is always 20-20.
Speaker 1:So that's really how I, my financial journey, my money journey, started. It started from, like these bad decisions with money, realizing the bad decisions, making an effort to clean it up, wanting to include other people or help others, and then getting to this next point of discouragement where I then obviously got back into it. Maybe a few years later I started teaching. Forget about friends, I'm going to start teaching strangers. And there's a story behind that, too, how I ended up reviving teaching others, because at that point, when my friends all said no, I teaching others, cause at that point, when my friends all said no, I kind of just went on with my life right, like I'm managing money. Well, I'm budgeting. I created my first budget template for myself. It's the same budget template I still use today, you know, started managing my money Well, opened an IRA because by this time I'm a parent. I became a mom at 24, opened an IRA for my, for my daughter really for me, but for her. Got disability insurance because I understood it's more likely you'll get disabled than die Right.
Speaker 3:That's like Brandon's favorite phrase.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, the biggest thing is that a lot of people, when they think of actually like a disability, they think that they are permanently paralyzed.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that is like the less than 1% of disabilities that occur. Most of them you will get better, but you're out of work for a certain period of time and actually normally it's like an illness that causes it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do want to just pause for a second and I do want you to continue down your path of all the things that you did. But the fact that you had the wake up call of like OK, my car got repossessed, I have to move out of my apartment, pop in bottles at the club and buying sneakers did not last very long. And now look at where I am. You could have stayed in that woe is me spot and just continued down that path, and instead you were like I need to get out of this and I'm. I am going to turn it around.
Speaker 2:And one thing that I really connected with was you saying that, like how you're both your grandparents were good with budgeting and it was more or less you seeing them doing it, but they didn't actually have a conversation with you. Because it's not just enough and especially when it comes to finances, it's not just enough to model good behavior. You really do have to explain it to your children so that they can understand it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And not shy away from those money conversations. Yeah, and I think, from those money conversations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think you know their generation was so far removed from mine they probably didn't even think about it, Right? Like I remember when, I got my first job, my parents being like save your money. But they never told me how much to save and what I was saving it for. But that was just the mantra I always heard Save your money.
Speaker 2:I mean also the concept of you know, having these open conversations about money is something that's new, at least new within our community and a lot of other people that aren't part of the wealthy, because the wealthy have always talked about money with their kids and stuff like that, but it's something completely new.
Speaker 2:And then even you know, in your scenario, like our scenario, like the Internet was not around the internet as it exists today. For you know, maybe some of our younger listeners didn't come around to like maybe 2008, 2009, so we were already in our 20s, working, yeah, so we couldn't just go to the internet and google something that wasn't still spending time at the library making photocopies like you said you, know, hey, let me photocopy this.
Speaker 3:Now it's hey, send it over. You're copying page by page and it's a whole thing.
Speaker 2:There was no like oh, go ahead and Google it or go to chat. Chat GBT.
Speaker 1:No, no, that wasn't a thing.
Speaker 3:So you open the IRA, you got disability insurance, you got life insurance. Is that all from the readings that you were doing? You were just self-teaching From the readings that you were doing.
Speaker 1:you were just self-teaching, self-teaching, yes, yes, from what I was reading, I was working a job that didn't offer any retirement benefits and I was like, well, according to these articles that I'm reading, even at my age, I can start a retirement. And I had inherited a retirement account from an aunt who passed away also, but she didn't really fund it with anything. So I was like, oh well, okay, she gave me whatever was left in her retirement and now I can start that same process for my daughter. So, yeah, it was literally just I self-taught on all of it, right, like I didn't. Later on, I ended up taking like a finance class at NYU and I was like, oh, this is really interesting, especially when I started getting more into real estate, because my first job out of college I worked for a real estate developer. I was her first employee and she was a millionaire and she was only 29. And right, but she was a millionaire and she was only 29.
Speaker 1:And how do I like Right, but she was honest. I mean, you know I get it. She was like I'm not going to teach you everything and I was like OK well.
Speaker 1:I'll go find out myself. So natural drive is something that I've always had. Like my car didn't get repossessed because I was negligent with my payments. It's because I had a boyfriend who I was like take the car payment and go to the bank. And he would not go to the bank and pay the car he was buying like comic books with my money. And one day I came outside and my car was gone and I was like, yeah, that's awful.
Speaker 2:That's a lesson in and of itself.
Speaker 1:Right, this is over, this relationship is over. I'm going back to my parents' house and I thought, like the debt, like oh, they'll sell the car and I'll be free of it, and you, and that's just not how it worked out.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's interesting because I guess I never really thought about it. Thankfully I've never had to have a car repossessed, but I would have thought, since you took the asset, that that takes care of the payment, that takes care of my payment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I thought too, but they sell it and whatever the deficit is between the sales price and what you borrowed, you still owe.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that makes sense, just like when people pass away and like they still owe taxes. You know, yeah, and it's just yeah. There's so many things. These are the things that we should be learning in school that nobody is learning until it's too late.
Speaker 2:I don't want to go down that rabbit hole because I have my own theories that there's a reason why they don't teach us that.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, we don't have time for that rabbit hole today.
Speaker 1:You know what, we don't even need to go deep. I see you and I totally am understanding. I'm picking up what you're putting down, right?
Speaker 3:and down right, like I get it, it's there, it's there. Well, one of the other things that we talked about, because you again, right from the start, you just very openly shared this journey. But then your friends were like, nope, we're going to the club and you're like, okay, you do you, but I'm gonna do me, we're gonna see who's better in the end. But then you did have this itch to help others, so can you walk us through? The pivot of what you were doing in the community. And why? Because I thought that was really fascinating too.
Speaker 1:So okay, so I would say probably between like 2000 and I don't know two or three, to like 2008,. I wasn't really sharing what I knew financially with anybody. I tried with my friends I maybe had a few one-offs who were like, oh, how do you fix your credit? And I was like here, take these photocopies, make copies, give it back to me, like, follow that and you'll be able. Because the photocopies in the book were like all of the letters with the sections of the code on credit, right. So it's telling you, based on this section, blah, blah, blah, you've got to delete this off my credit in 30 days if you don't respond, or whatever. So I was helping people in that way, but it was like one-to-one.
Speaker 1:Then in 2008, I graduated with my master's in real estate development from Columbia University. At the time the university was working on this project. At the time the university was working on this project, they were expanding their school into Harlem, predominantly Black community, prestigious white university, right the neighborhood. So I would have to go to the public hearings and the community meetings and I mean people came and they were livid. They were like my kid will never be able to afford to go to this school. My kid doesn't even go to a school that will educate them well enough in order to qualify to go to your college. I don't want you in my neighborhood, I don't want you expanding your school in my backyard. And for me, being that I had been working in real estate by then for almost four years, I was like man and I had this financial knowledge that I had taught myself. I'm like man. Maybe if they understood financial literacy is their key. With that knowledge you can put your stake in the ground and not have to worry about gentrification, not have to worry about being pushed out. You can get all your neighbors together, pull your money together and buy the building out from under the owner you know, so that they don't sell to someone like the university or sell to someone who's going to come in and raise all the rents and kick you out. So I saw a need and started to teach in the community. So I was working.
Speaker 1:The bad part about it is I was working for the university, by day, actually, as the project manager and owner's rep for the university expansion at the business school, and on the weekends and at night I was teaching personal finance to the community Under an alias, by the way, yes, under an alias, because the project was in the paper so often and on the news so often. I didn't want anyone to connect me, anyone in the community, to connect me with the university, otherwise I knew they would not come. And so I did that for a couple of years and I was teaching for free just like this is your opportunity. And by I was teaching a 10 month program and they would come once a month for like two to four hours. And by I was teaching a 10 month program and they would come once a month for like two to four hours, and we would just dive into a personal finance topic every time. We did one on budgeting, one on money management, one on credit, one on investing and people would come out of this program at the end and not even care about the university project anymore because they felt empowered to go live their lives on their own terms. So I have students who came out of that program who went and bought condos in Westchester, forget about Harlem, they left the city altogether. Some who paid off all their debt, some who started investing for the first time ever in their lives and built portfolios of $40,000, $50,000 in a year to two years time.
Speaker 1:So I saw that, okay, this is a thing right, and it can be beyond just the people here in Harlem who are facing an actual issue and need. So I started teaching anywhere they would take me Boys and Girls, club, department of Probation, forced to Care, alternative high schools, like high schools where they're like this is your final chance before we kick you out and all you have left to do is get a GEV and one school in particular. I worked with them for like almost a year. They had me come back as their keynote graduation speaker. Great experiences that's amazing. Any and everywhere that they would take me the YMCA, like any place where they had younger people young people or young adults, or even like older adults who never learned about money. I felt at that time like personal finance should be a right, right, like we all deserve to learn how to manage money, because you're thrust into this world and you have to earn money to live. So why not give everyone the opportunity to learn how to manage it? Well, that's so incredible.
Speaker 3:I mean, you really were like the modern day Robin Hood, right Like you're working for the big corporation during the day and then at night you're like but we can do it better, this doesn't have to be this way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3:So then, what happened after that? So you're I mean you're all over. You're helping people grow their wealth, understand financial literacy? Yeah, what happens?
Speaker 1:next my gosh. So so many amazing things. I mean, I got picked up by the media. I was on all different types of television networks. I started a savings challenge, so I don't know if you guys remember there was this. You know they started this 52 week savings challenge and it was one dollar a week for 52 weeks and at the end you would save like 13 or fifteen hundred dollars, something like that.
Speaker 1:And the girl who started it I know personally and it's no shade to her, but I was like this is ridiculous. This is, this is mediocrity, and I don't like mediocrity. Like what can we do differently? And at this point I still didn't have a business, right, I was just doing all of this off of, like my own heart, like just servant leadership, right, like I just want to serve. And I was like, oh, I want to do this savings challenge and I want to be arbitrary, right, like I don't want it to be, because we worked out your budget and now we found $200. I want to be radical.
Speaker 1:And I pulled a random number out the sky and was like I want to save $1,000 a month, wow. And I challenged everyone who I was friends with on Facebook I challenge you to save $1,000 a month, and I actually got 12 people to agree who I was friends with on Facebook. I challenge you to save a thousand dollars a month. And I actually got 12 people to agree and we all didn't have it in our budget, but we made it happen Right. So, like for me and my husband, we moved, we downsized our apartment in order to make that savings challenge. We had yeah, we had two cars at the time. We parked up one car because one car was paid for and I rode the train and he drove. We took one of our kids out of private school. Like we ended up. It became so fun. We ended up being able to save $2,000 a month instead of 1000.
Speaker 3:Wow, because of that intentionality Just being intentional and our group.
Speaker 1:I had 12 people who started with me. Six of them dropped out. We had six people who stuck with Just being intentional, to talk about, like they called me, the budget saving mama. I love it. How many kids did you have at this point? Four, Four girls.
Speaker 3:Wow yeah. The fact that you're doing all of this, working full time then, weekends and nights in the community building this challenge. I mean, did you ever sleep? Cause it doesn't sound like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, I listen. So my boss at Columbia business school would always say if you want something done, give it to somebody busy, right? So, like moms, for whatever reason, we have this and I definitely credit Jesus with it because this I have a supernatural ability to manage a lot of things at one time. Now, full transparency, that does not mean that everything is being done at 100, right, but it's being done. And I give myself that grace to know like it's not always going to get done at 100, but it's going to get done.
Speaker 1:So I still didn't have a business yet, still just doing all these fun things getting picked up by media. My social media is growing and I'm like oh, and to me I was like I don't need this to be a business, I make six figures at work. I don't need the money, I just I love to do it. And I didn't want to take on the responsibility of a business. And of course, so many people are like well, you know, you have something here, this can become an income stream for you. And I was like and then I had some friends. So some of my like finance friends were doing the same thing and we were all growing together. Everybody's social media is bubbling, everybody's getting picked up by media. They're plugging me because they've got things that they need to do and they can't go to all their media appearances.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, okay, I'm going to make this into a business now, because now they're making money, right. And I'm like, huh, I just, I just still love this to to do this. Wait, what, how much did you make? What, what? But that actually it didn't work out for me the first time I tried to make it a business. So I kind of walked away from teaching finance for five years. Yeah, God was like, no, you're going to put this down, you're going to go focus on being a mom. I didn't work for almost four years at all. I just stayed at home, was a mom cooking, baking cookies?
Speaker 2:Like okay, you went from all the things to just a mom, a full-time job and some by itself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And by then I think I had five kids by then. So I was like you know, it'll, it'll. I didn't think. I honestly didn't think I was going to teach finance ever again. You know, I was like this is it was great, I had a great run. It came with a lot of notoriety, not really much money, but I served a lot of people, I helped a lot of people. I started teaching online because, probably between 2010 and 2015,. Online space started becoming really big, so I started teaching in the online space. I would do some group classes and then I walked away. So 2016 to 2021, I didn't do anything with finance. And then, 2021, I got a call from Essence Magazine and they were like hey, we'd like you to come to Atlanta and talk to girls about what you knew about money in your twenties. And I was like where did you find me? I don't even have a website. Like That'll be my next question.
Speaker 3:Oh, don next question. I asked her that at dinner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like where'd you get my number, you know? And somehow they saw some things because I still had articles, I had writing credits, so I still had articles that were still online and somehow this girl connected with another girl who knew me personally. That girl called me and was like hey, essence wants to talk to you. I was like what? And they want to pay you? And I was like okay, okay, yes.
Speaker 2:I'll fill that conversation.
Speaker 3:I guess I can make time for Essence, no big deal.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, and I had never worked with them before and they were someone that I did want to work with and I was like, absolutely yes. And I went back to God and I was like, wait, so I get, do I get to go back, like, and make this a business for real? And it's been since 2021, really back in business, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think you were gonna say something no, I just love the idea that when you were talking about when even though it didn't work out the first time the people that you were surrounded with, you guys, were all helping each other and that is not a competition. It's not like only one person can succeed there is enough space for everyone to succeed, and you look at it, instead of from a competition standpoint, as a collaboration.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, so that I have to give all the credit to that, to Tiffany Aliche, the budget Nista. I met her Tiffany is fantastic. The first time I met her. That is one of the things she said to me and it stuck with me from then. So she and I both started teaching personal finance the same year and she would always say don't compete, collaborate. And so she and I have been featured together. We've done together. I've taught classes for her Live Richer Academy. She's always been phenomenal. Her.
Speaker 1:Tanya Rapley from MyFab Finance, marsha Barnes from the Finance Bar those are my girls. When I have an issue in the personal finance creator space, that's my crew. Hey guys, okay, I don't know what to charge. What do I do about this? How do I negotiate this? They are my crew. And there's another girl, sandy.
Speaker 1:She doesn't do as much as she used to, but she had created this group called Colorful Money and it was a group of us finance creators of color minorities, women and men, and she made it that we could have this space to share. Like, hey, you're working with Forbes. I did an article with Forbes. Here's how much I charge them. It was just an open space where we could talk about opportunities share opportunities. Talk about opportunities share opportunities group evolved and it's now called Elevate Money. But that was, that was my foundation. Like we were all of us were running around doing all types of great things and helping each other. Like Cara frugal feminista, she's one of like she had put me on to so many opportunities. Like, oh, I can't do this one or I'm not available for that, can you take it? Can you take it? So, yeah, that that squad, like having that squad behind you, and I feel like in the personal finance space in general, there is more than enough people in the world who need help that we don't have to compete Right.
Speaker 3:You know, well, I even think about that when it comes to, like, real estate agents and real estate investors. And you've got all these shows about. You know who's buying these $32 million penthouses in Miami and at the beach in California and all. And it's like we have all these shows and, yes, they're competing, but there's still enough space, you know. So then you look at something as not fun and sexy as finance and it makes so much sense for us to be working together and collaborating and doing podcast swaps, and you know especially what you mentioned about. Well, how much did you charge Forbes and how much did that? Those conversations need to happen across all the fields.
Speaker 3:You know, like hey, if I'm leaving a position and I'm referring a friend to that position, here's how much I made. You should ask for 10% more.
Speaker 2:You know like that's 100%. Yes, that's 100% what needs to be happening, underestimate and undershoot a lot of things and undershare. If we were sharing more, we could you know and share If we were sharing more we could, you know, solve these problems for ourselves. Because we know Chad is going to always ask for more than he's worth.
Speaker 3:Chad and Trevor are asking.
Speaker 2:No offense to anybody named Chad or Trevor out there.
Speaker 1:You know so. Real estate, though, is a different beast. Right Like, I think, in the personal finance space, you can share and collaborate, and not compete, because there are literally millions of people who don't know what they're doing with their money, and they work every day.
Speaker 3:And high earners now right, High earners that are living paycheck to paycheck.
Speaker 1:We see the articles constantly because making money and managing money are two completely different things. Yeah, real estate different ballgame. Real estate is a shark tank. It is a shark tank and it was good for me because I worked for an owner and I had the exclusive on everything that she rented or sold. When you don't have that and you are clawing with the agent next to you trying to sell a piece of property, no, it is to the death in real estate.
Speaker 3:That's a whole different ballgame. I don't want to be part of that. No, I don't want to be part of that.
Speaker 1:That's why I gave up my license after I stopped working for her, because I was like I'm not going into that piranha pool, absolutely not.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause I mean even within, like you know, as a financial, a financial planner. Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah, because I mean even within. Like you know, as a financial financial planner, I'm not necessarily competing with other financial planners for clients, because you, each person can resonate differently with a different financial advisor, like we can do all the same information and everything like that, but our personalities are different, our approach to personal finance is different. So it's like hey, if you don't resonate with me, then it you might resonate with somebody else. So it's not really a competition. It's do we? Hey, if you don't resonate with me, then you might resonate with somebody else. So it's not really a competition. It's do we match?
Speaker 1:Right Both ways on both sides and people don't understand how important that is. Because I like I bring on. So I like Financial Literacy Month. I do a live series and I bring on guests and people are always curious why I bring on other financial coaches, because I'm not everybody's coach.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Right, like you may resonate with this person more than you resonate with me, great that you're here, but if you resonate with this person, go work with them, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's literally the first thing I say is you know, if I'm meeting with a new, you know, prospect, potential client, I'm like if for any reason there's any hesitation in your trust towards me, or just whatever, the vibe isn't right, I'm not your person.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's okay, because also trying to force.
Speaker 2:It is not going to be the best use of your time or my time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially because finance is so intimate, jess, I heard you saying that because you have to get into people's business and really, like you, have to be honest with me about how you're spending your money and what your own barriers are with yourself. If we don't match personality wise, it's not going to work Right and there's such a.
Speaker 3:You know, people I mean people's money is personal, but there's also so much, so much shame and trauma and oh, I did this wrong. They're going to judge me and I did this wrong. And you know, and it's like if you can't get over that hump, which is your personal hump to get over, you're not going to click with anybody because you really have to go into any kind of coaching, financial planning, anything you know.
Speaker 3:heck, even getting life insurance. Hey, brandon's going to see something that maybe your closest friends don't see Right, and he's he tells people that upfront. Hey, when I get your your file back, I will see things that maybe your parents don't even know about you. I just want you to know, you know. I mean it's a very personal and intimate relationship, and there's people I know that, you know.
Speaker 2:when I get that back, it shows that they you know they had one or two miscarriages and as a person I know them outside of this relationship. I didn't know that. So that's why I always preface I was like it before we get into this. Like you know, there might be things that you didn't tell me. Just want to let you know beforehand. I don't see it. I'm going to see it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think what you just said too, about that personal relationship I think is really important. So I do want to pivot into the work that you're doing now, because you are focused on finances in the biblical way, which is, I mean, a very niche way to look at money and then correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you also only work with women at this point, right.
Speaker 1:So I'll work with both women and men. Majority of my clients are women. It's funny because the majority of my like consultation calls are with men, but my students are women.
Speaker 3:So the men call to see what it's all about, and then the women actually sign up.
Speaker 1:Well, the men call because they've got questions they like either especially when I was more focused on real estate and how to buy a primary home or how to really get started in the real estate as an investor majority of my calls were my consultation calls, were men. Even now, recently, I've gotten a lot of men who are like my grandmother passed away and she left me this house and I want to. I want to make it an asset. You know what do I need to do? So, yeah. So biblical finance, okay. So I've taught personal finance for many years. It was never from a biblical standpoint. 2024 is the first year that I've really gone full fledged into biblical finance, partially because when you look at every financial principle, you can trace almost every financial principle a coach teaches back to the Bible, and that's from budgeting, money management, investing, diversifying your investments, not letting money have a control over you, using it well to grow your community, to leave an inheritance for your children. All of that is biblical.
Speaker 2:Paying your debts.
Speaker 1:Paying your debts, being a good lender for others. So for me, I was like you know what God? I want to highlight you I want to show, and so two parts. One, every financial principle goes back to the Bible in some way shape or form. And two, jesus is a way better financial coach than I'll ever.
Speaker 1:Be Right, Because while I can teach anyone how to set up a budget, I can teach anyone how to manage money If they're a good student, and I can teach them how to get out of debt. I cannot do anything supernatural in your finances. So I can't make you go under the dresser and find a check that you somehow lost for $1,500. I can't do that, right. I can't give you favor with your creditor where the creditor is telling you no, you need to pay me in full or I'm reporting this to your credit report, and then the next time you call, they're like you know what, we're going to give you a payment arrangement and we're going to make it affordable. I can't do that, but God can. So let me give him his proper credit and tell people about this additional resource in finance that has nothing to do with money but will improve your money relationship for sure.
Speaker 1:So started teaching personal finance with biblical concepts this year. Really, once a week I was like I'm going to do a post on a financial principle that relates back to the Bible. And in March I kind of was like God, what do you want me to do with this? This is not getting really a lot of attention. No one's really paying attention. If this is what you want me to keep doing, like I was doing fine teaching finance just by itself. And I said that before I made a post on a Sunday and that post went to 2 million people and I was like, okay, jesus has spoken, keep going. Here we go, yeah, and I love it because it's such a. I did not realize how many people wanted to know what God had to say about money and it really is different than what I would teach without the Bible. It comes to God and money. It's really about your heart first, not the dollars. But when you adjust your heart now, how you use the dollars is going to change. That's so interesting.
Speaker 3:I know that when we were at dinner I asked you a question about tithing which I think can be.
Speaker 3:obviously it's highly personal and people have their own ideas around it. But I really liked what you said about the three different ways to tithe and of course you pulled it back into why the tithe exists and why the 10% and where that 10% came from. But my question around tithing for today's episode is centered around the people who are tithing 10%, let's say, you know, because that's kind of the standard number that's thrown out. So people who are tithing 10% but are in debt and could use their tithing money to get out of debt. So if they, you know, substituted tithing with, maybe community service of some sort for a period of time, instead of giving monetarily, they could give up their time to help eliminate their debt but choose not to because of whatever sort of guilt or thoughts they have around tithing. So I'd love to know your thoughts on on tithing and finances, for if you've ever worked with somebody that's like, well, I have to tithe.
Speaker 3:I can't stop. Even if you've shown them the numbers to say, hey, if you stop tithing for six months, you'll be debt free, versus if you keep tithing, it's going to take 18 months, right? So we'd just love to know your take on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I do not. One thing I'll say upfront I do not recommend anyone stop tithing if they're committed to it right. Because here's the thing tithing is a principle of the Bible that's heart based. It's not obligation or compulsion. At this point, right In the Old Testament, you had to tithe by law, but people were tithing by law and their heart wasn't committed.
Speaker 1:The principle of tithing started before the law. So in Genesis we see Abraham give Mekezildek a tithe of 10%, and then we also see Jacob give God a tithe of 10%. Both of those tithes existed before the Mosaic law was even created. So the principle of giving God a 10th of what you receive, we have to remember one. Everything we have is his anyway. He's giving it to us on loan. As stewards we have to. Then, in honor of him, we can give 10% back to him.
Speaker 1:If you don't feel connected to the tithe, you don't have to do it. But for those who do feel connected to it, to tell them to stop to pay off debt even though the numbers financially work, it would be a violation of their conscience. And now I'm causing them to sin, and so I can't put someone in a position to violate their conscience and sin against their God when they've made a commitment, even if that commitment looks like on paper that financially it's hurting them. So have I had clients who say they are not cutting, they're not reducing their tithing Absolutely. I've had others who have chosen of their own free will to do it right, and then they supplement their tithe with time and talent. Right, Because tithe can be financial. You can give a tithe of treasure, a tithe of talent and a tide of time and really, as a believer, you're supposed to do all three. Right. But if you're in a position where you can't do all three maybe because if you just gave money and not time and talent, you're still not being a full-fledged, functioning believer right, we're supposed to do all three. So I could look at it from either standpoint. If you're giving the money but you're not given time and talent, you still not. There's still work for you to do in your relationship with God, one on one. Those who are and we have to understand right, like those who understand the principle of tithing and commit to it from a heart perspective because they want to honor the principle even when their finances are not in a good place, they will see a breakthrough financially at some point in their journey because of that commitment they've made. There's an honor that comes to God when you tithe and in the repayment for your honor, he allows you to have unexpected blessings, unexpected windfalls. You to have unexpected blessings, unexpected windfalls.
Speaker 1:I have my own personal testimony with that of like going to New York to go sell a house that I knew I wasn't going to make any money off of Walking away from the closing, going to see my mother-in-law and her being like hey, you've got some mail here. I open up the mail it's a check, a refund from my mortgage company. Oh, we messed up, we overcharged you. Here you go, you know, even though I walked away from the closing with zero. So he will show up in different ways when you can. That's why I was saying, like biblical finance is about the heart, it's about not feeling tied to money in a way. So when you're able to let go, God is able to give you in other ways. So like I sold a house for a million dollars and did not make a dollar, Right, Totally did not make a dollar, and that's his own story.
Speaker 1:But then God, Part two of the podcast, yes, part two. But God saw that I wasn't griping or whining or complaining about having to walk away from this closing table with nothing but my name, because that's what I asked for, Lord. Just let me walk away with my name, clear. Forget about the money. If I don't make a dollar, I don't care. And then he blessed me the same day with a check from somewhere else. That's the posture of biblical finance. It's learning how to manage money well, yes, absolutely. Learning how to be a good investor, Absolutely. But also learning that you don't have to let money control you or hold you. The easier you are to let go of it, the more you can be blessed with over time.
Speaker 3:I love that.
Speaker 2:And I think that even ties back to our previous conversation about when you're working with an advisor who you to connect with and you match and they respect that aspect of you. You know, I personally wouldn't consider myself an extremely religious person. I do believe in a higher power, but I've had instances with you know clients where they were tithing. I you know, from a mathematical standpoint it would make sense for them to put that money towards debt, but that was important to them. We're like OK, conversation done, let's move to the next one.
Speaker 1:And I think it's OK Me, when I first started teaching personal finance, I was very like no, you got to get rid of this. Like you've got to get rid of. You can't afford Starbucks, Right? Like when you do the math per capita, you have to make at least $90,000 a year to afford Starbucks. You don't make 90,000. Cut Starbucks from your budget, right? Like that's how I was teaching and it worked for a lot of people. But over time I've realized like listen, there are things people want that they want, and I'm okay with you having your choices, as long as you understand that means you have to make other choices somewhere else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100% yeah, because I don't tell people what to do. I show them what it looks like if they take option A, where it goes to how long it takes to get there, or if you take option B, how long it takes for you to get there and what that looks like. You make the decision. As long as you are comfortable with it, everything's fine, because like I said once again, it's not my life.
Speaker 3:Well, but also, when you're uncomfortable with something, right, if it's like, okay, cut out Starbucks, and it's like, oh, that's my one piece of happiness for the day, well then you're probably not going to stick to whatever the plan is. Long term, you're going to be miserable, which, again, it's just like that diet mentality of like, oh, you can't have fried chicken, so all you want is the fried chicken. And then when you have an opportunity, you're going to binge the fried chicken. It's just, it's not a good cycle you know, so Yep, yep.
Speaker 1:True.
Speaker 3:Lilius, this has been. I know we need to do a part two and part three. First of all, how do you afford berries for your six children? That's a whole episode in itself, but then also, Our kids inhale strawberries.
Speaker 2:We need to keep up. I need a raise for the.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if anybody's trying to sell a strawberry farm, please let us know, because we will buy it no, we'll invest in it. I don't want to tell it but we know that there's so much more to this conversation where we can dig in and pull out all of your goodness for the people who are listening, who are like, oh, lilias could be my. I resonate with women in finance and the biblical aspect. Where can our listeners find you?
Speaker 1:Yes, so they can find me online. So I'm on Instagram at yourfinancialstylist. You can also go to my website, which is yourfinancialstylistcom. I also have a little bit on TikTok, a little bit.
Speaker 1:You're a financial stylist over there too, perfect, so those are sort of my main sort of, my main ones I'm trying to build up on YouTube. Actually, I'm going to be starting a series called pulling back the curtain because I think, like you said, jessica, how I'm so open and I'm, like, ready to share. I think it's important as a finance coach to not let you think everything over here is perfect, right? So let me pull back the curtain and show you my life behind the scenes. I'm not afraid to share, because my biggest thing is here's the mistakes I've made I've made every mistake and here's how I bounce back every time, right. So don't be afraid of making the mistake, right. You can always recover with the right attitude, like I just shared. I just came back from Europe and I was sharing on Monday, like how the Euro, being stronger than the dollar, ran my pockets Like it's like you're bleeding money out there, you know, and I blew my spending budget.
Speaker 3:But did you have a fabulous time.
Speaker 1:I did, I had a great time. I had a great time. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, we usually say, well, what's what's one thing you would leave our audience with, but I feel like you just said it right, like don't be afraid to make the mistakes, but is there anything that you'd like to add to that as a final thought?
Speaker 1:So I posted this today actually, and I think it's a perfect quote to end with you are only a failure when you quit, not when you try one more time. That is perfect, yeah that is really nice.
Speaker 3:We are so thankful for this conversation. Again, stay tuned. We're gonna have to do a part two and part three to dig into some of these other areas. We will make sure to tag all of your socials and your website. Definitely can't wait for the YouTube series yeah, pulling back the curtain because that honesty and transparency is so important when it comes to this topic, because the internet will have us believing that everyone's out here walking around like a millionaire with 60 properties living their best life, and you know that that's not the reality. But sometimes looks can be deceiving. So we appreciate your honesty and vulnerability and the journey that you've taken, which has been so incredible.
Speaker 3:So thank you for being with us today, lilius. Oh, thank you, thank you for having me. Don't forget. Benjamin Franklin said an investment in knowledge pays the best interest you just got paid. Until next time. Thanks for listening to today's episode. We are so glad to have you as part of our Sugar Daddy community. If you learned something today, please remember to subscribe, rate, review and share this episode with your friends, family and extended network. Don't forget to connect with us on social media at the sugar daddy podcast. You can also email us your questions. You want us to answer for our past the sugar segments at the sugar daddy podcast at gmailcom or leave us a voicemail through our Instagram.
Speaker 2:Our content is intended to be used, and must be used, for informational purposes only. It is very important to do your own analysis before making any investment, based upon your own personal circumstances. You should take independent financial advice from a licensed professional in connection with or independently research and verify any information you find in our podcast and wish to rely upon, whether for the purpose of making an investment decision or otherwise.
