The Sugar Daddy Podcast
Ready to normalize talking about money? Then welcome to The Sugar Daddy Podcast. Every episode will get you one step closer to your financial goals. Whether that is learning how to invest, budget, save, retire early or simply make better money choices, Jess & Brandon have got you covered in a way that's easy to understand, and easy to implement. Tune in as they demystify the realm of dollars, so it all makes cents, while giving you a glimpse into their relationship with money and each other.
Brandon is an award winning licensed financial planner, and owner of Oak City Financial, with over a decade of experience and millions of dollars managed for his clients all over the United States.
New episodes published the first three Wednesdays of every month.
The Sugar Daddy Podcast
73: How to Successfully Navigate a Layoff: Jessica's Personal Story
In this episode, Jessica shares her personal journey of being laid off from a Fortune 100 tech company and the steps she took to navigate this transition with strategy & resilience. The conversation delves into managing emotions during layoffs, understanding severance packages, job searching strategies, and the importance of networking.
Jessica and Brandon dive into:
• Sharing Jessica's layoff experience and emotional response
• Importance of understanding severance packages and your finances
• Strategies and tips for effective job searching
• Navigating the interview process and negotiations
• The value of networking in finding new opportunities
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Notes from the show:
Email template Jessica read in the episode
In today's episode I discuss that I was laid off last September from a Fortune 100 tech company and I detail exactly what I did to land my next job, which I'm happily starting in 2025. So if you are facing a layoff or know somebody who has stay tuned, this episode is for you.
Speaker 2:Hey babe, what are we talking about today?
Speaker 1:Today we are talking about how I was laid off from my corporate nine to five in September of 2024.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fun times back then.
Speaker 1:Fun times. We're gonna get real raw and honest here. I mean, there's definitely people, obviously, who know and I've shared it with and it was wasn't something that I shied away from and we've done an episode like this before in the past. It was actually episode 38. Feels like a lifetime ago, february 2024. We are now in 2025. But now I'm speaking from firsthand experience and full transparency. I've never been laid off before. This was also not something that I saw coming. It was something that was not performance-based Like I wasn't on a pip. This was literally one of those. You know another massive layoff we hear about them all the time. We typically this company does, you know, two a year. They're very big impact. This last one impacted almost 7,000 people, and so at some point, you just get to a point where you know you're just not safe.
Speaker 2:I have a you know a client that was at the same company as Jess, in a different role, A completely different you know part of the company, but she was affected by the layoff as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's. You know it's certainly something that we needed to navigate. So today's episode is going to be all about what we did. As many of you know, I am the breadwinner in the family, I'm also the one who holds the insurance for the family, and so you know it is a big deal. Thankfully, we were given a really nice severance, which certainly helped ease the blow, gave me time to reflect and do the things that I recommend people in a similar situation do. But I understand that getting a six month severance is coming from a place of privilege. So that is what this episode is going to be about.
Speaker 1:Long intro there, let's get into it. So a little background, because I feel like what happened was a little. It just got crazy. It was a little unique. So I had shoulder surgery in early August and my idea was I was going to take two weeks. Everybody was like, yeah, you should. I mean you work from home, you're not gonna have to drive. You know, as long as you can reach your keyboard comfortably, you know I have a standing desk, it'll be fine. I was not so fine, but it was actually a really good time because this company, q1, actually starts in August. So it was like a part of the year where that's when people take vacations, that's when sales kickoff is our entire sales team, you know, goes to Vegas take vacations. That's when sales kickoff is our entire sales team, you know, goes to Vegas. And so it was actually a really good time for me to take another week and I was like nobody's gonna miss me. Nothing really is happening that I need to be a part of. So I ended up taking another week. So I took three weeks and I think maybe two days of of leave for my shoulder surgery, of leave for my shoulder surgery.
Speaker 1:Now the technology that I was brought in to help manage I could start. I was seeing the writing on the wall Like I knew that this technology was not going to like stand the test of time, and so my role actually started pivoting into rolling out an AI pilot for the sales team. It was a really exciting project, lots of great potential. I was happy to make the pivot. I went into more of a project management type role and from there I started realizing that I felt like I was a floater. I felt like, oh, we need this project done, let's tap Jessica to do it. Oh, we need to roll out this. Let's get Jessica to do it. Oh, we need a new deck for this. Let's get Jessica to do it, and so.
Speaker 2:I just want to pause there for a second because it's very interesting, because the way that I viewed it was like you're kind of like a Swiss Army knife, which means that you can do a lot of things, however, which you would think normally is a good thing, but maybe sometimes in corporate America, being the Swiss Army knife is not necessarily a good thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I do think it's good to bring a variety of talents and flexibility to your roles, right, because I mean, who knows, this could have afforded me maybe an extra year, right, like I had to let my actual project manager go in another mass layoff a year ago, right? So, yes and no, I think it depends on you know what kind of role you're in and the ability to Swiss army knife but not actually be the Swiss army knife.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 1:I think that, being the Swiss army knife, where it's like, well, what is she actually doing? What is she spending her time doing? And then it's these random like well, she helped do this and she helped do that and she led this and she rolled out that, and I don't know. I mean, maybe you know, maybe it's in my head, but the point is I kind of started seeing the writing on the wall. So I was ready for a pivot and so before I went out for medical leave, I actually was interviewing For medical leave. I actually was interviewing internally for a different role ended up getting.
Speaker 1:That role was on a completely different team, was in a completely different sector of the business. I was really excited about it. The director for that unit that would have been who I would have been reporting into had spent 10 years at Google. Who I would have been reporting into had spent 10 years at Google. Like she was sharp and I was really excited to learn from her was able to negotiate a 10% raise, which internally, you know, is a large amount of money, and that was a whole thing in itself and so I was really excited.
Speaker 1:I was getting ready to tell my manager that I was accepting this new role and then the recruiter called and said, hey, they are going to wait to like have you sign anything until after the earnings call. And if you work for a public company, you know that that is not a good sign, like if you're putting anything on pause because of the earnings call, it's already dead in the water. And so I looked at Brandon and I was like they're going to wait until after earnings. This is not good. I ended up going out on med leave. You know this new team already knew about all of that.
Speaker 1:And, of course, you know, a few weeks later, after the earnings call and the dust had settled, you know they ended up saying, hey, we are closing this requisition. So I went from I'm really excited about this new role, this pay bump, you know, learning something new, not being the quote unquote Swiss army knife of my team to you know, the disappointment of, okay, now this role no longer exists Fast forward. So this is all kind of in the month of August, fast forward to September 16. My manager put a Monday morning meeting on my calendar, which is not uncommon. Monday was was always our day for our one on ones, but she moved it up in the day again, didn't think of it. We always keep a very flexible schedule didn't think anything of it.
Speaker 2:By 915 mean I was telling brandon like hey, I was just impacted, I, I was let go yeah, because I remember, because I was at the gym and she texted me hey, this is what happened, finish your workout, you don't need to come home. But of course I wasn't going to stay there and finish my workout because I wasn't even right headspace then, so I obviously had to come home.
Speaker 1:Well, and I was like what are we going to talk about? Like there's so much that I still need to wait on Right.
Speaker 2:It was more from a support standpoint also.
Speaker 1:Well, of course, and I appreciated that, but for me it was I had given that speech, right, hey, how was your weekend? You know, I was going into things, business as usual, and my manager went straight into the HR speech and I was like, oh, this is what we're doing. And you know, this is a manager that I've worked with at a past company, that I've learned a ton from that I really respect as a leader, and especially as a leader for women. Like she is the person who goes to bat for women, you know, helps you negotiate, wants you to get everything that you can, you know, when you're negotiating. So this was nothing. I never felt like this was a personal attack on me. I could see that she was uncomfortable delivering this HR speech and I just remember, because there's nothing you can do at that point. Technically, you can, I guess, contest it or put in for like a what is it called?
Speaker 2:I have no idea.
Speaker 1:Where you dispute their decision. But it's just not going to go in your favor, like the, to spend the time and energy and effort to do that with a fortune 100 company, like, if you've if you've ever done that and it was successful, let me know, we'd love to have you on the pod For me. And where my headspace was, I was like, nah, we're not going down the route. So I let her do her speech, she let me, you know, know what I was, what I was going to be expecting as far as paperwork and you know when. I would hear more about my severance and things like that.
Speaker 1:But what's really nice, and which again is a privilege, is that they essentially put you on garden leave, and I didn't realize that garden leave is a term, but it's when a company lets you go but you still have X amount of time to receive your pay, your benefits, et cetera, but you're not expected to work. So from September 16th until November 15th, I was technically employed, I was receiving my paycheck, I was receiving healthcare benefits, all of that, but I was not expected to do anything right Like. I cleared my calendar, declined every meeting invite and my job was either to look for a job internally or to look for one externally. And so Brandon and I, you know, of course, we kind of sat with the information but we basically decided, like, do I look for things internal or do I look for things external? And because I had already gotten that new role and then it was kind of taken away and I didn't really see anything internal that it was like really sparking my interest, I said, you know what, let's take this severance, put it into our high yield savings, you know, keep it as a cushion for later and move forward with external roles.
Speaker 1:So have you been listening to our podcast and wondering how am I really doing with my money? Am I doing the right things with my investments? Am I on track to reach my financial goals? What could I be doing better? If you answered yes to any of these questions, then it's time for you to reach out to Brandon to schedule your free yes, I said free 30-minute introduction conversation to see how his services could help make you the more confident moneymaker we know you could be. What are you waiting for? It's literally free and at the very least, you'll walk away feeling more empowered and confident about your financial future. Link is in our show notes Go schedule your call today. That's the backstory. I wanted to make sure that everybody understood, like, how this happened, so I never took it personal. You know, I never even cried about it and like yeah, I was actually very surprised, I think you were waiting for me.
Speaker 2:I was very surprised when I got home how calm you were and it wasn't like I was freaking out in the sense of oh no, what are we going to do, you know? From that standpoint it was more or less like I felt bad for you because I knew how hard you work and so. But you took it I mean a lot better than I thought you would have.
Speaker 1:Well, and I was. You know, if I needed to cry or if I needed to have that moment of, like, rage or disappointment, or just, you know, let my feelings feel, I would have done that. This was not me holding back or limiting myself in my having feelings, I just was so disconnected from like 6000 plus other people were laid off right, like this wasn't one of those scenarios where I was picked and picked on or I was in this bad situation, or like it literally was a business decision and you know, they de-invest to reinvest, and like I had been there for three years and it happened twice a year. Every year, I mean they were still doing layoffs in Europe because of legalities, from the spring going into the second layoff, you know, in September, and so I just didn't take it personal.
Speaker 1:I also knew that kind of wallowing. You know, if you're going to wallow, wallow for X amount of time, give yourself a weekend, give yourself three days, give yourself a week. Do not let yourself go past a certain date because you're not going to be productive. So I never had that moment, but I will say I just kind of sat with the information for about two weeks and again I had a six month severance coming my way right. So I had time and I really do, especially now, understand you were still healing from shoulder surgery as well.
Speaker 2:I was healing.
Speaker 1:I was doing PT PT twice a week, like there was a lot going on, and so I just I took two weeks to just kind of be. You know, I like I was like man, okay, like I don't normally watch TV, I guess I can watch some Netflix during the day, like that's kind of cool. And you know, I did my PT and like I met up with friends for lunch and I really did. I really did just take two weeks to just kind of exist and it was nice. So I would suggest, you know, sit with your feelings and again, we've done this episode before, but now I'm really speaking from a place of experience Just sit with your feelings, let them process, let them simmer.
Speaker 1:You might not feel anything the first day, you might feel everything on the fifth day. I don't know. That's going to be up to you and your body. But just be, don't jump into like all right, let me do my resume, let me do my linkedin, let me like just be yeah, whatever feelings you have, don't suppress them and push them down like right feel the feelings feel the feel but then get past it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Once I was ready to like talk about it, what I realized is I needed to help people. Actually, I'm going to take a step back. What we did after I got all of my paperwork is we sat down and we looked through it.
Speaker 2:I was about to say that.
Speaker 1:Sorry, that is actually more important, especially if you're getting a severance. I was like what are the details? Yeah, what are the details? You need to understand that package inside and out. You need to be marking your calendar for dates. You need to be setting your alerts. I mean, there was specific dates that certain things had to be done. Right, I had to sign my separation agreement at a certain date and time. I had to, you know, move some of my stocks that they allowed us to vest early, you know, by a certain date. I needed to understand our health insurance. I needed to understand which parts of my policies are portable and do I maybe want to port them.
Speaker 2:Yes for some of our employee benefits that she had.
Speaker 1:So that's something that Brandon and I talked about Like oh, I have this life insurance, I have this disability policy, I have X, y, z. Are these things that we should at least look into porting over to see what is it going to cost? Do we still have to do the health assessment, et cetera, et cetera. So I mean it was, you know, 50, 60 pages of paperwork. I printed it out, I had it saved, I marked key dates. Brandon and I had a shared note on our phones with key dates.
Speaker 1:Questions that kind of started popping up as I started sitting with the information. And so get organized, really understand especially again if you have a severance really understand what is that package and then utilize the resources that are available to you. So for all of the people impacted at my company, there was sessions that I could attend and a whole bank of videos to watch and again, more supplemental material and q&a's and faqs and all the things, and I, you know, I started slowly going through those to make sure that I had all of the answers that I needed and had answers to all of the questions that I had.
Speaker 2:So some of the key things that I would point out that once I heard that she was laid off, that I was very interested in finding information and once she got it, we went through it in great detail was one how long is she getting paid for? You know so luckily, in this scenario she was still technically employed. You know for two more months, and then you know a four month severance from that. Also, when it comes to a severance package, you also got to find out how is that money going to be given to you?
Speaker 2:The reason I say that is because so, for example, in our scenario, just a severance package technically from a timeframe would have went into from 2024 into 2025. And she got the four months as a lump sum. So you're getting more money. Technically, we got more money paid for her in 2024 than she normally would have made by work, by working there, if she had still stayed employed. So, to think about it from a tax standpoint, if there's going to be any issues with that now also, the biggest thing is health care. How is that being taken care of? So, luckily, you know as her being employed, for the two months that she was there had a regular health care still, but once she was through the end of november, even though my last day was november 15th yeah, so, technically, when you know, her severance date happened and we no longer had insurance through there, what was going to be available to us?
Speaker 2:so, luckily, in this scenario, we had access to cobra and they gave her an additional lump sum of money to pay for the cobra right because normally in that scenario you have to think, hey, am I going to take cobra?
Speaker 2:and I can tell you right now that most people. It's extremely expensive because your company is no longer subsidizing the health care they're providing you, so you're paying the entire amount yourself. So normally all their only other alternative is looking to the healthcare market to see if you can get a plan there. Or maybe if you have you know, luckily two spouses that have access to healthcare through their employer, you might have to actually put everyone on the other person's healthcare plan, because at that time you would be able to do that, even though it's not annual enrollment, because you've had one of the qualifying scenarios happen where you can make changes to your health care, your health insurance and just for transparency, as a family of four to continue our health care benefits we are paying almost $2,700 a month.
Speaker 1:So we had to pay that for December. My new employer is going to pick up my insurance starting in February, so for the month of January we had to do COBRA as well. So I mean you know you're looking at over $5,000 for two months of insurance. That's not a little bit of money. And again, thankfully that was part of my severance package to pay for that. So especially, you know we went to Panama for Christmas in 2024. Not that we would ever be uninsured, but we were looking at can we get some sort of a plan that just kind of keeps us afloat, you know, in case of emergencies? But I was still going to PT and you know, as soon as you make a change to your insurance, something happens with the kids and so we said let's just keep our continuation of our benefits and let's do COBRA.
Speaker 2:And because it was essentially paid for but one other thing, too, that you know, especially if you're working in the tech space that you want to be aware of, is how are any RSUs that you may have been given?
Speaker 1:Restricted stock units.
Speaker 2:Yes, restricted stock units, yes, restricted stock units for those individuals who didn't know what that means. But how are those gonna be distributed to you? So, for example, often you are basically given a certain amount at a given time but they have to vest. So you have them but you don't have them. And luckily, in just a scenario, they expedited some of the ones that normally would not have vested in time for her to have them when she was separated, but that was part of her severance package for them to up the date on some of those. So that helped, you know, provide a little bit of additional money that she received from those RSUs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which was really nice. I mean I left a ton on the table. They call them golden handcuffs for a reason, but you know we started cashing them out for various things in the past once they vested, and so you know, if you have access to RSUs or you can negotiate them upon entry to a new company, absolutely do that, because you know it's nice to have them. So it's pretty standard in the tech space, once you get to a certain level in your career, to be able to access those.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the big thing that we want to focus on here is that once you know that you've been laid off and you understand your severance package, you want to also adjust your budget accordingly to make sure that one all your expenses that are necessities are covered and that you don't obviously run out of money prior to getting a new job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and our goal really was to not use as much of the severance as possible, because we really just did want to put it back into savings and kind of pad that back up. I don't plan on leaving tech anytime soon, and tech is a volatile space and so having a strong emergency fund is always a top priority for us, and so we didn't want to, you know, get this large check and be like woo, we're ready to party Like no that was not the case.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause like the idea is that technically she has um, still money from her severance for the month of January and February, but she started a new job and so hopefully the idea with that was it's it was two months worth of income that we don't need to use.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but going into, you know, analyzing the budget, of course we looked at our numbers, we looked at subscriptions what can we cut just to give us a little bit more of a buffer? And we ended up really only cutting one thing, which is my subscription, or, I guess, membership to like a massage, like a monthly massage or facial, that I pay a membership for. I actually ended up putting it on hold. I called them and I was transparent and I said, hey, I've been let go. Is there anything that you can do for my membership? Typically they will do a one month hold and since I just came off of surgery and I wasn't really getting massages because I couldn't lay in a certain way, they actually were able to do two months and then they delayed charging my card once it re-upped, and so that really got me back into January again, which is really nice.
Speaker 1:So as far as like TV subscriptions and things, we either get them, you know, free through our credit cards or through the phone plan, etc. Etc. The other thing that I was considering is should we cut our housekeeper, who comes every other week and I just know myself, and if the house is not clean I'm not going to be productive, and so having her and her team come every other week to just keep things kind of in order and keep things going on the cleanliness side, I think was really important, and so we did not cut that expense. Am I missing anything?
Speaker 2:No, I mean, the key point that we want to put here is that we got the information. We sat down together and went through a plan of action of how to get through this time frame until she found employment again. Right, and that's the big thing is that we talk through everything. Once again, it's scheduling the time. Obviously, we have the time and making a plan and sticking to that plan.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. We just needed to have open communication, and I'm pretty sure I even said in that meeting like, hey, do we get rid of housekeeping? I know that if the house is not clean, that's not going to help me find a job, you know.
Speaker 2:So and the thing is, too, is's not going to help me find a job. You know so. And the thing is, too, is that, even though you make a plan in place, you know as like, let's say hypothetically, we were getting to middle of January and she still hadn't found employment. So we have a month and a half left or you know, we get to the beginning of February and nothing has happened, then obviously we would make more drastic cuts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Let's get into some of the more tactical things. So if you've been listening to this podcast for a while, you know your resume should be updated. Like I don't care if you are the CEO of the company, you need to update your resume. So my resume, of course. Again, I had just gotten that internal job, so my resume was up to date, ready to go. But if you have been laid off, I mean, one of the first things you should be doing is updating your resume, making sure that all of your latest achievements, accomplishments, contributions are there and clearly spelled out.
Speaker 2:And also you should probably, throughout the course of the year, set calendar reminders just to update your resume, because there might be big projects that you've worked on and completed and those should be things that you highlight in your resume. You don't want to forget about it.
Speaker 1:At the end of every quarter, do a little sweep of your resume and think about the projects that you've completed, the contributions that you've made, the successes that you've seen. If you're not going to do it, you know, once a quarter, I would say first half, second half, I mean bare minimum. You should be looking at that twice a year. There's just no reason not to and you forget what you're doing and what results you're seeing if you're not keeping track. So, by kind of keeping track of what you're completing, putting that on your resume, keeping some sort of a brag sheet, have that stuff handy because it's going to be important, especially in the event that you get laid off. Once you have your resume complete, you can transfer all that information onto your LinkedIn profile.
Speaker 1:I would not suggest actually uploading your resume, but those key bullets, your skills, etc. You know, make sure that that is all updated on LinkedIn. I've said it before. Make sure you have a professional headshot. This is not the time to have a picture of you, you know, at your wedding in your wedding dress, like the things that I see on LinkedIn. I'm just like. This is not Facebook. What are you doing?
Speaker 2:So question for you why would you not upload your resume onto LinkedIn?
Speaker 1:If you're going to upload your resume on LinkedIn, I would remove your key information like your personal email address Some people I don't personally put my address anymore because I was only looking for remote roles but you can have your city and state. It's really about privacy. You know you might have your phone number on there. You don't want that on display for the world. You also, as silly as it sounds, you don't want to put everything out there because you know people are going to beg, borrow and steal. So you don't want your accomplishments from your resume all of a sudden showing up on somebody else's resume as well. So you want to keep some things kind of you know for yourself. Now, the overarching, like day to day role and responsibilities, you know, put that into that career section. But as far as everything that's on your resume, like teed up in a resume or a CV, I simply wouldn't upload it. But I do see it from time to time. Yeah, you can also on LinkedIn, make yourself open to work.
Speaker 1:I ended up making myself open to work for recruiters only and I did not end up doing the green banner. I don't think there's anything wrong with the green banner. I know there's a lot of back and forth discussion. There's two sides of the camp. People are like that's so desperate, don't do it. And then recruiters are like no, you're literally letting us know you're open to work, so why not? I just decided not to. I also decided not to do the big like hey, I've been impacted type post. If you're active on LinkedIn, you're probably seeing those a lot as well. I don't think there's anything wrong with them, but I do think if you're going to take the time to do that kind of a post, you need to add value and let people know what is it that you're looking for specifically. Too many times I see posts that are like hey, I'm looking for my next role in project management. If you can help me, let me know.
Speaker 2:Very generic.
Speaker 1:What sector are you in? What kind of team do you work on? Like? What part of project management do you excel in? You know what are your successes? Like it's so generic where you're really letting people come to their own conclusion of what project management is, and I think that's a misstep that a lot of people are making.
Speaker 2:Also a little call out here is that we have the mindset that even when you're happily employed I'm always open to listening to you know possibility of better opportunities. So there is a way to, like she said, let recruiters know that you are open to employment without quote unquote being out there publicly where, like say, your current employer can see it.
Speaker 1:Right, that's a great call out. I think you have to get really clear on what you're looking for. So that reflection component we talked about it in the last episode you have to really understand like what are you? What are you really wanting to get out of this next role? Right, it could be. Do you want to be hybrid? Do you want to be an office? Do you want to work 100% remote? Right, it could be. Do you want to be hybrid? Do you want to be in office? Do you want to work 100% remote? Do you want opportunity to travel? Do you want to lead a team? You know, do you value a higher base salary over? You know, maybe PTO, like whatever it is that's important to you.
Speaker 1:Get crystal clear on that, because as you start telling people that you're interested in XYZ opportunity, they're going to ask like oh, are you okay with coming in the office three days a week Because we've recently changed our in-office policy, right?
Speaker 1:And if you are like, yeah, I guess I'm telling you right now I'm not going in the office three days a week. Now, if I need to travel and be on site and go into the office, happy to do that. Otherwise, on a regular Monday through Friday. I don't need to be sitting in traffic for two hours a day to be in someone's office. That is where I am in my current life right now and where my boundaries are, and I made that very clear to people. And you have to really read the fine line to the fine print, because there's a lot of jobs out there now that are touting themselves as remote and then when you get into that fine print or you speak to the recruiter, they're like well, we actually have a hub, so-and-so. So if there's a hub within 50 miles, then you're expected to be in the office, you know, two or three days a week.
Speaker 2:AKA, not remote.
Speaker 1:So there was a lot of that nonsense that was happening. Same thing with salary expectations, right? Do you know your numbers? Of course, everybody wants to increase their salary year over year, especially if you're changing companies. You're changing maybe industry sector, et cetera. Nobody's trying to go backwards in their salary. But what else is important to you? Maybe it's an education stipend, maybe you can get a severance built in. Maybe there's a RSUs.
Speaker 1:Maybe there's RSUs, maybe there's a conference or two that you've been really wanting to go to that you haven't been able to go to in the past. Have a list of things, aside from your base salary, that are really important to you, because those are all things that you can eventually negotiate, are all things that you can eventually negotiate. What I will say is there were several you know jobs that I was able to interview for, met with recruiters and the you know the salary was x. And then by the time you say, oh well, I'm located in North Carolina, and they go, oh well, in that case, the salary is this and it's 40 or $60,000 lower than what was advertised. This and it's 40 or $60,000 lower than what was advertised. Like that's really disappointing. So just also know that a lot of these salaries are really enticing and they're for the San Francisco Bay area or they're for the New York you know office. They're not for your office in Milwaukee.
Speaker 2:Also, too. One thing that we actually did together is we talked through these things together. Also, too.
Speaker 2:One thing that we actually did together is we talked through these things together. So, you know, having someone you know to be your sounding board in regards to talking through these, to get very clear on what it is you enjoyed about, you know the role that you were let go from and what were some of the things that you didn't enjoy, so that when you're going to looking for your new role, you are very clear and specific about what it is you want to do and the things that, like Jess has said, things that just aren't up for negotiation, they're not an option for you.
Speaker 1:Right and you know, realizing that what maybe is not an option in your first month to three months of job searching might later need to become an option, but at the beginning certainly hold firm to. You know what you know is going to make your work-life balance what you want and need it to be right, because you still need to show up every day once you get hired and that was also a good call out.
Speaker 2:There is that you know, if you're taking a little bit longer to find something, then things might pivot. Because early on Jess got some offers. They just weren't in line with what she was looking for and thankfully we're in a scenario where she didn't just have to take the first thing that came along. She could be very intentional about what her next move was going to be, but she definitely turned down a couple offers that just didn't align.
Speaker 1:Yeah that. And going on in the interview process, right After you've spoken to the recruiter, maybe even the hiring manager, or maybe you've been on a panel this is your time to remember that you were interviewing them as well. So if something feels off, you're like there's something about this hiring manager that doesn't feel right, or I don't know if this team culture is going to be a fit for me. Like in some cases, you just need to go with your gut and say thanks but no thanks. I really appreciate this opportunity. I'm going to remove myself from the candidacy pool, right, because you don't want to waste their time. But, even more important, you don't want to waste your time, especially when finding a job and interviewing and preparing for those interviews. Those are full-time jobs in themselves, so you don't have time to waste.
Speaker 2:And also, too, as far as for the interviews that you may have, that ultimately the job just isn't alignment for you and maybe they wanted to offer it to you. You don't want to burn bridges because these might be companies down the line that have other opportunities open and be like hey, I remember interviewing so-and-so. They were really great. Unfortunately, we didn't have enough money to pay for the role, but this other role that we just opened up is perfect for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what I would say. I would say you know, if there's more senior roles that come available down the line, I hope you. You know, keep me in mind, let's connect on LinkedIn, stay in touch. And everybody was like yeah. And everybody was like, yeah, that sounds great, Absolutely. I had a lot of interviews, too, where the recruiters would start with hey, let's talk about your salary expectations because, based on your background and experience, I don't think we're going to align. Aka they knew that I was priced out from whatever their role was, which I appreciated. So some of the phone screens essentially that I had were under 15 minutes because, listen, we don't show up to volunteer, we show up to get paid. Right, I will do a great job, but you will pay me for it, and so if there's not alignment there, then there's nothing else to talk about. Let's stay in touch. Let me know if there's something more senior coming up. Thanks, but no thanks. I wish you the best in finding the right candidate, Right, so just don't waste your time.
Speaker 2:And I would say that's another call out for people that you know were the elder millennials. So we're a few, you know, several years into our careers. You can ask what the salary is going to be If someone's not willing to tell you what the salary is going to be beforehand.
Speaker 1:I'm not working there, that's right. I don't need to waste my time, nor your time. If the money is nowhere near what I'm looking for, yeah, 100%. One other thing you know talking about interviewing and applying and prepping for these interviews it's all the job, and so one thing that I think is really important is to have a mindset of how many jobs do you want to apply for every day.
Speaker 1:I will say we are out of the window of like I applied for five jobs and I, you know, got to two out of four offers. Like it's just not happening. There's too many talented people in the job market and mentally I was like, all right, it's gonna take me six to eight months to find what I'm looking for. But I would say keep a schedule right. Like it's really easy to be. Like oh Netflix, like what's good, what's popping. You need a schedule. I'm going to be at my desk by nine. I'm going to work until you know 1130, I'm going to take a break. I'm going to go to the gym, whatever it is. Have a schedule of when you're going to be applying, when you're going to be reaching out to recruiters on LinkedIn, when you're going to be sending emails. You know you need to have some sort of structure around your daily activity, and I do mean daily, because you need to be applying for jobs every single day.
Speaker 1:My goal was to apply to 15 to 20 jobs a day. Some of them were, you know, directly on the portal. Some of them were quick apply on LinkedIn. Some applications took two minutes. Other applications took 20 minutes or you know longer. Some of them have little built-in assessments. I mean, all sorts of things are happening. You need to have a schedule in place and you need to make sure that you are allotting dedicated time to this job search, the interview process, prepping for the interview, maybe doing some mock interviews, you know, with friends, family, your spouse, etc. To make sure you get any of those jitters out. Especially if you haven't been in the job search for a while, you know it can feel a little scary and intimidating. So having the right prep for these interviews is really important. I look like you were gonna say something.
Speaker 2:Nope.
Speaker 1:Okay, I did write down in my notes to get your mind right, to interview Y'all. There's a lot of nonsense happening out there. You know, overall, I would say my experience was really good. I was blessed I'm blessed with a really great network of people. People were very willing to put me through their referral portals. I asked people for recommendations on LinkedIn and got them. No problem. Talk about giving yourself a little ego boost, like ask people to write you a recommendation on LinkedIn and then them. No problem. Talk about giving yourself a little ego boost, like ask people to write you a recommendation on LinkedIn and then see what they wrote. I mean, oh my gosh, it was so humbling, it was so great to see that so many people you know genuinely were like Jessica's a rock star, we love working with her, et cetera. So you know, that's something that you could probably incorporate throughout the year as well, and not do it like I did, which is wait until you get fired.
Speaker 2:Well, the thing is, I do want to call out here because one you made it very easy for people to make recommendations for you and also to pass you through the job referral, because you gave them a very clear picture of what it is you were looking for. I'm going to get to that, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm going to get to that. Um, okay, let's. Let's go into what Brandon's talking about. So you know that we're very firm on like your network is how you get work. So you should always be networking, connecting with people, going to networking events, going to conferences when you can, you know, and being intentional. If you meet somebody new, like, hey, let me get your LinkedIn and like, connect and send them a message hey, it was great meeting you at so and so event. That way, a year from now, when they are posting a job, you can at least go back to that message to say, oh, I met them at so and so conference. Or I met them at this networking event. Like, let me jog their memory. You know, hey, we met at this event back in da da, da, da da. I saw you posted this. Can you tell me a little bit more about the role right, like so, make those connections be genuine, but also just follow up so that you have that reference of how you met that person.
Speaker 1:What I did after I, you know, took my two weeks of just like me time is I had a couple conversations with friends and people in my network and some mentors to talk about. You know what is it that I'm looking for? And that really helped me break down. You know my kind of my must haves, my nice to haves, my need to haves, you know all of those things that were really important to me in this role. And so what I ended up doing is I ended up kind of putting together an email that I sent out to friends, family, people in my network. I sent it to people on LinkedIn, not like an email blast on LinkedIn, but like people who I know are well connected, are posting jobs, etc. And I was hyper specific on what I was looking for. So I'm actually going to read an excerpt of what I sent. So just know, I started with like I'm writing to let you know that I was part of the 7000 people who were recently laid off.
Speaker 1:Although I understand this was a business decision and necessary pivot into different growth areas, no one wants to be on the other side of that call. So I kind of did like a little background of like hey, here's what happened. This was not performance based. This was not, you know, jessica, getting a slap on the wrist. You did something wrong, like I was part of a mass layoff, right? I thank the people who have already asked how they can help. I said you know, if we're not already connected on LinkedIn, please connect. And I linked my LinkedIn and then I said, if you'd like to help me find my next role, I am narrowing my job search into these areas. So here's the thing, and I'm going to pivot just a second, because too many times we, as people, we say, oh, I'm in tech or oh, I'm in project management or oh, I'm in, you know, consulting. The reality is is nobody knows what that means. Nobody knows what you do all day. Like my closest friends cannot give a description of what I do all day.
Speaker 2:Your husband couldn't.
Speaker 1:Right, Like half the time he's like oh, I was talking to so-and-so and they asked what you did and I was like uh, sales, and I'm like I did not.
Speaker 2:No, I know you don't do sales, Come on now.
Speaker 1:But I do say like hey, you could probably get a better idea by talking to Jess, right? So, like people don't know what you do, you say project management and I say project management, it means literally a completely different thing, right? So you have to paint the picture for people and get really clear on. What does that mean? What are you good at? What do you do during the day? What industries and sectors are you focused on? What kind of people do you like to work with? What kind of team structure do you want? Like, give them you're gonna word vomit all of this. You need to give them the details so that when they see in their job board or in their Slack community this job pop up, they'll say, oh, I remember Jessica said XYZ, okay, so I would just wanted to kind of tee that up. So here's what I said.
Speaker 1:If you'd like to help me find my next role, I am narrowing my job search into these areas Industries, in order, technology, with a focus on SaaS, and services, healthcare and education. I am open to other industries, but this is where my most recent experiences are and I feel most confident Experience level, senior manager and up Y'all. I am not early in career, I am not 22. Do not send me job descriptions for something that is asking for one to three years of experience. That is not me and it's not going to be the salary that I'm looking for. Again, you have to be hyper detailed when you're letting people know what level of career title are you looking for. So I said senior manager and up, either as an individual contributor or leading a team. Work locations remote. I'm currently in a global role and happy to continue with that or focus solely on the Americas. Travel when needed is totally fine. Work functions. I am focusing on program and project management, sales enablement and sales tooling, digital transformation, change management strategy and planning revenue operations.
Speaker 1:And then I said I excel in problem solving and thinking outside of the box, removing bottlenecks and building out processes and operating models that make life easier, engaging stakeholders and building champions to help roll out big company initiatives, leading high growth teams that crush goals, rolling out programs at scale and creating content that converts readers into customers. I am eager to find a company that puts its people first, has great work-life balance and awesome benefits. I would love to work for a team that is actively working on building out a great program or process where I can truly come in and leave my mark. If you know of people in your network that have open or coming soon positions in the areas above and are open to helping me finding a new role through your referral program or portal, I will gladly welcome a warm introduction or the assist. And then I closed with you know. Thank you so much, and I attached my resume as well.
Speaker 1:Again, these are people I know personally. This was a personal email coming from me to my friends, people in my family. You know people in my network. So again, I painted the picture of like here's what I like, here's what I'm good at building out processes, models, frameworks etc. I can't just go and say, hey, I'm, you know, in project, in program management. People don't know what that means. Spell it out for them, get hyper focused. And if it takes you a week or two or three to figure out well, what am I looking for, that's okay. It's better to take the time you need to get hyper-focused, like I did, than to just put a blanket message out on LinkedIn that says, hey, I'm looking for my next role. Any help is appreciated. What?
Speaker 2:And in those scenarios most people want to help you, but you didn't give them any guidance on how to help you, so then they can't think of you.
Speaker 1:They can't think of you when they see something in their network or at their company, because they have no idea what it is. You do what you like, what you're good at, what you've done in the past. Like you did not paint the picture, so you have to paint the picture for people.
Speaker 2:And one thing I would say one of the reasons why, when we got the news about just being laid off, that, why when we got the news about just being laid off, that, obviously you're you know you have a slight worry in the sense of that's everybody does. But why I wasn't like extremely worried is because one I know how awesome of you know her work ethic is and what she brings to the table for any employer, but then also I know that she's always networking. She is always networking and it's just her superpower, it's second nature to and I was like you're going to find something soon because you're always having these conversations with people.
Speaker 1:And I will say my network is how I got work Right. And you have to have a sense of vulnerability too. I message people you know that I hadn't connected with in a while, or people that I'm very well connected with, and I said, hey, I've been impacted. Here's what I'm looking for. Can you help? Or I saw you're connected to this person. Can you make an introduction? Can you send me an email? Can you send me the link to your internal referral portal? Like, you have to ask for what you want.
Speaker 1:People are very well intentioned, people are very open to helping you, but you have to make it easy for them right? Like, don't make the people you're asking for help do the work. Tee up your bio, tee up a little email snippet that they can quickly cut and paste to the hiring manager or to the recruiter. One thing that I did is I went and applied to several jobs at larger companies and then I went back to my contacts there and I said, hey, I just applied for this role. Here's the requisition link and the requisition number.
Speaker 1:Any chance you know the hiring manager. And even in the event where they were like yeah, I have no idea who that is, but I'm happy to reach out on your behalf. That's great, because now my application is already in the portal and now they're getting a tap from somebody internal saying, hey, just wanted to flag this resume, wanted to flag this name for you, so and so is awesome. You know, we'd be happy to have her at X company. If you've already applied, that's OK. There's other ways to get in front of the recruiters and the hiring managers, so I could talk about this all day. We wanted to give you a little glimpse into, like, what we've been going through and how we handled this.
Speaker 2:Yes, I do have one more small detail. What we found out was is that once you got set, once you got let go, one of the things we went to go look and do is hey, is she eligible for unemployment?
Speaker 1:Which I've never filed before in my entire life.
Speaker 2:And also too, if you are eligible for unemployment which I've never filed before in my entire life and also too, if you are eligible for unemployment, take it because you are paying into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've had friends in the past who are like no, we can leave that money for other people who truly need it. That is not how the system works. If you are eligible for unemployment, even if you only use it for a week or two, go ahead and apply. But what Brandon was about to say is I was not eligible because my severance was going to take me into, you know, q1 of 2025 yes, so if you have a severance, then you are not eligible for until your severance is yeah, so your severance ends.
Speaker 2:You are not eligible for unemployment yes, but you know again, it was something that we learned in the process and yeah, but we just wanted to double check yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 1:If you have a severance, you know, wait until that severance is over to apply um, but if you don't have a severance, absolutely apply for unemployment immediately. You've been paying into that system. The money is yours. You're not taking it from a pot that doesn't, you know, belong to you. Don't have those feelings, yeah.
Speaker 1:If you have any questions about what else I went through? Want a copy of you know the email that I sent or whatever. Like, just reach out, it's, it's a. It's tough out there, it really is. You know, you're probably going to have to stock some of the recruiters. People do not follow up. People don't send calendar invites that they said they were going to send. They don't send benefit package information that they said they were going to send. They don't call you.
Speaker 2:You ran into some really interesting recruiters were like this is your job, it's literally your job and you're so bad at it.
Speaker 1:I don't understand. I'm like how do people keep those jobs? Because?
Speaker 2:this is literally your job and I'm following up Because, as a recruiter, you get additional pay for putting people into these roles, so why would you not be on top of sending information that you said you were going to send?
Speaker 1:It's weird. Shout out to the great recruiters out there, because they will literally make all the difference. Shout out to the great recruiters out there, because they will literally make all the difference. I will also say I've interviewed with companies where the process was just falling apart at every turn. And that's a turnoff too, because you're like, oh, if you can't get it right in the recruiting process, is this what I'm signing up for for my day to day? Because I don't think I'm interested in that either. My day to day, because I don't think I'm interested in that either. So you know, in some of these situations I just had to go with my gut and say thanks, but no thanks. Let's stay in touch, but it's a no for now.
Speaker 2:But just again we were very fortunate in those scenarios where you didn't have to just accept something to. You know have money coming in.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely, coming from a place of privilege privilege, but just that to say. You have to get your mind right because there's a lot of nonsense happening out there. It doesn't matter how qualified you are, how much experience you have, you're going to run into some things we didn't even get into the assessments. There's a lot of assessments, y'all. You're going to be spending time putting together decks and plans and roadmaps and, you know, I would suggest again, if you're not 100% or 90% really really excited about that job or that company or that team, don't take the time to do the assessments, especially if it's putting stuff together right where you're like practically handing over, like here's how I would handle the first six months of right. Where you're like practically handing over, like here's how I would handle the first six months of this role, and you're like giving them a blueprint to your IP. No, thanks, not doing that. So if you have any questions, honestly send me an email, leave us, you know, shoot us a DM on Instagram. I'm happy to answer any of these questions, give advice. You know, I'm certainly not a careers expert, but I do think I do a lot of things well and you know, I am starting my new job with a company I'm super excited about on Monday. So happy January to me, all right.
Speaker 1:Hopefully this was helpful. Y'all go get those jobs, go keep those jobs. Make that bag, make that money. Honey, we'll talk to you soon, don't forget. Benjamin Franklin said an investment in knowledge pays the best interest. You just got paid Until next time. Thanks for listening to today's episode. We are so glad to have you as part of our Sugar Daddy community. If you learned something today, please remember to subscribe, rate, review and share this episode with your friends. Please remember to subscribe, rate, review and share this episode with your friends, family and extended network. Don't forget to connect with us on social media at the sugar daddy podcast. You can also email us your questions you want us to answer for our past the sugar segments at the sugar daddy podcast at gmailcom, or leave us a voicemail through our Instagram.
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